lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Jan 16, 2017 16:49:46 GMT -5
Jason's Stark's ballot:  no problem with it, except for this......you are obviously not taking steroids into account(Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, Pudge.) that is fine. Ton of roiders already in. so 1) how do you not vote Sosa in there? lead MLB in HRs twice years(and those weren't his THREE 60+ HRs years) RBIs 3 times, Total bases 3 times,runs 3 times.....over his 9 year prime, he AVERAGED 49 HRs and 127 RBIs.
and 2) Mussina? no....never one of the games best pitchers....just a bunch of good seasons compiled. He belongs with McGriff, Biggio, Baines, Tommy John, etc....... Your problem with this is Sosa and not Manny Ramirez? I missed Manny on the list when I skimmed through it. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 16:49:55 GMT -5
Your problem with this is Sosa and not Manny Ramirez? Manny failed 2(?) drug tests? Sosa didn't. Manny was the better player, but I doubt eother gets in. If steroids are a concern, neither guy gets a whiff. Nor would most of the guys with a real shot on this ballot |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 16:53:00 GMT -5
Jason's Stark's ballot: no problem with it, except for this......you are obviously not taking steroids into account(Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, Pudge.) that is fine. Ton of roiders already in. so 1) how do you not vote Sosa in there? lead MLB in HRs twice years(and those weren't his THREE 60+ HRs years) RBIs 3 times, Total bases 3 times,runs 3 times.....over his 9 year prime, he AVERAGED 49 HRs and 127 RBIs.
and 2) Mussina? no....never one of the games best pitchers....just a bunch of good seasons compiled. He belongs with McGriff, Biggio, Baines, Tommy John, etc....... You got to go Sammy if you go Bonds and Clemens. I guess Stark has to go Man Ram too then. Manny is the second best hitter on this ballot. |
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Chappion
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Post by Chappion on Jan 16, 2017 16:53:26 GMT -5
Manny failed 2(?) drug tests? Sosa didn't. Manny was the better player, but I doubt eother gets in. If steroids are a concern, neither guy gets a whiff. Nor would most of the guys with a real shot on this ballot Right. But I'm talking about failing an actual drug test with MLB. Sosa didn't. Bonds didn't. Bagwell didn't. Manny did. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 16:54:17 GMT -5
Why Mussina, but not Schilling? Why Bagwell, but not Sheffield? I think Mussina was better than Schilling and far more durable There wasn't enough room for Sheffield, but he should get in. I also think Walker should get in Im not going to get into defending Schilling, but if you really believe Mussina was better then my respect for your baseball chops just took a serious hit. |
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Jan 16, 2017 16:56:56 GMT -5
On Sammy Sosa's best day, he couldnt carry Manny's foot cream... On Sosa's best day.....lets call them his best years....he is hitting 60+ HRs and driving in 160 and had 400+ total bases....
I think Manny almost reached 350 total bases in a season......almost....
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 16:59:01 GMT -5
Your problem with this is Sosa and not Manny Ramirez? Manny failed 2(?) drug tests? Sosa didn't. Manny was the better player, but I doubt eother gets in. If number of failed drug tests damns Manny and absolves Sosa, in your mind, then.... Ok? |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:01:44 GMT -5
Your problem with this is Sosa and not Manny Ramirez? I missed Manny on the list when I skimmed through it. A gentleman and a scholar |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:03:41 GMT -5
If steroids are a concern, neither guy gets a whiff. Nor would most of the guys with a real shot on this ballot Right. But I'm talking about failing an actual drug test with MLB. Sosa didn't. Bonds didn't. Bagwell didn't. Manny did. I guess I just have a hard time damning Manny and letting Sosa and Bonds through. |
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Jan 16, 2017 17:03:59 GMT -5
manny was obviously the better hitter over his career.....
but Sosa had some other wordly years that Manny cant match.
so the 'on his best day' argument doesn't apply.
for example.......2001
.328/.437/.737 1.174 OPS 64 HRs, 160 RBIs OPS+ 203
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jan 16, 2017 17:06:31 GMT -5
I think Mussina was better than Schilling and far more durable There wasn't enough room for Sheffield, but he should get in. I also think Walker should get in I don't think that either Mussina or Schilling has the numbers. Schilling's ERA and K numbers are better, Mussina's wins numbers are better (in the regular season obviously). If you like the wins so much, you must have been a Porcello voter. nah had nothing to do with wins every year he did the same thing. he was consistently good. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:06:51 GMT -5
manny was obviously the better hitter over his career..... but Sosa had some other wordly years that Manny cant match. so the 'on his best day' argument doesn't apply. for example.......2001 .328/.437/ .737 1.174 OPS 64 HRs, 160 RBIs OPS+ 203 I rarely invoke the seeing eye test.... But Im doing it now. Sosa wasnt half the hitter that Manny was.. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:08:34 GMT -5
I don't think that either Mussina or Schilling has the numbers. Schilling's ERA and K numbers are better, Mussina's wins numbers are better (in the regular season obviously). If you like the wins so much, you must have been a Porcello voter. nah had nothing to do with wins every year he did the same thing. he was consistently good. Mike Mussina belongs in the hall of "great #2 starters".... He can set his plaque right next to Andy Pettitte's. |
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jan 16, 2017 17:10:03 GMT -5
I think Mussina was better than Schilling and far more durable There wasn't enough room for Sheffield, but he should get in. I also think Walker should get in Im not going to get into defending Schilling, but if you really believe Mussina was better then my respect for your baseball chops just took a serious hit. so it went from 0 to negative? i can live with that Schilling made his bones in the NL. Put his AL numbers against Mussina, and smart people would see who was better |
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jan 16, 2017 17:11:27 GMT -5
Schilling made at least 30 starts 7 times in 20 years
Mussina did 12 times
being durable > being a brittle bitch
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jan 16, 2017 17:12:20 GMT -5
nah had nothing to do with wins every year he did the same thing. he was consistently good. Mike Mussina belongs in the hall of "great #2 starters".... He can set his plaque right next to Andy Pettitte's. and Glavine's |
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Jan 16, 2017 17:12:50 GMT -5
Right. But I'm talking about failing an actual drug test with MLB. Sosa didn't. Bonds didn't. Bagwell didn't. Manny did. I guess I just have a hard time damning Manny and letting Sosa and Bonds through. Bagwell.....Pudge.....
you take it into account or you don't.......you don't get to selectively choose some but not others because Sosa, Manny are douches.
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:13:53 GMT -5
Im not going to get into defending Schilling, but if you really believe Mussina was better then my respect for your baseball chops just took a serious hit. so it went from 0 to negative? i can live with that Schilling made his bones in the NL. Put his AL numbers against Mussina, and smart people would see who was better So... when you compare Schillings numbers from 37 years on, it doesnt hold up with Mussina's entire career? |
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Post by Smuck on Jan 16, 2017 17:15:13 GMT -5
Im not going to get into defending Schilling, but if you really believe Mussina was better then my respect for your baseball chops just took a serious hit. so it went from 0 to negative? i can live with that Schilling made his bones in the NL. Put his AL numbers against Mussina, and smart people would see who was better Park and league adjusted ERA+ don't agree with that assessment. Both his K and ERA numbers, adjusted for park, were better. And comparing Schilling's 4 years in the AL (37-40) against Mussina's age 37-39 numbers in the AL (he retired before age 40), Schilling's are still better. |
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jan 16, 2017 17:15:38 GMT -5
so it went from 0 to negative? i can live with that Schilling made his bones in the NL. Put his AL numbers against Mussina, and smart people would see who was better So... when you compare Schillings numbers from 37 years on, it doesnt hold up with Mussina's entire career? schilling started his career in the AL, superfan |
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mell
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Post by mell on Jan 16, 2017 17:15:56 GMT -5
Jason's Stark's ballot: no problem with it, except for this......you are obviously not taking steroids into account(Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, Pudge.) that is fine. Ton of roiders already in. so 1) how do you not vote Sosa in there? lead MLB in HRs twice years(and those weren't his THREE 60+ HRs years) RBIs 3 times, Total bases 3 times,runs 3 times.....over his 9 year prime, he AVERAGED 49 HRs and 127 RBIs.
and 2) Mussina? no....never one of the games best pitchers....just a bunch of good seasons compiled. He belongs with McGriff, Biggio, Baines, Tommy John, etc....... Yeah Sosa is basically forgotten - not blackballed, forgotten It's strange |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:16:39 GMT -5
I guess I just have a hard time damning Manny and letting Sosa and Bonds through. Bagwell.....Pudge.....
you take it into account or you don't.......you don't get to selectively choose some but not others because Sosa, Manny are douches.
I completely agree.... You said in your post that you were omitting steroids and yet still left Manny out. You then said you missed Manny's name.. No harm, no foul.. Sosa obviously had the numbers... But if you ask me, he is the absolute poster child for "decemt player who put up hal of fame atats because of the juice" To me, Manny was just an apples and oranges better hitting talent. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:17:53 GMT -5
So... when you compare Schillings numbers from 37 years on, it doesnt hold up with Mussina's entire career? schilling started his career in the AL, superfan Is this what we're doing right now Frank? We're going to talk about Curt Schilling stats as a Baltimore Oriole? |
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Post by Smuck on Jan 16, 2017 17:19:10 GMT -5
I guess I just have a hard time damning Manny and letting Sosa and Bonds through. Bagwell.....Pudge.....
you take it into account or you don't.......you don't get to selectively choose some but not others because Sosa, Manny are douches.
Word |
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jan 16, 2017 17:19:48 GMT -5
schilling started his career in the AL, superfan Is this what we're doing right now right? We're going to talk about Curt Schilling stats as a Baltimore Oriole? so he deserves the HOF based on his Boston career only? |
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Jan 16, 2017 17:21:12 GMT -5
I don't think that either Mussina or Schilling has the numbers. Schilling's ERA and K numbers are better, Mussina's wins numbers are better (in the regular season obviously). If you like the wins so much, you must have been a Porcello voter. nah had nothing to do with wins every year he did the same thing. he was consistently good. consistently good shouldn't get you into the hall.......being great should be a requirement......
being one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball for 5 years....and then some other pretty good years >being about the 6th to 10th best pitcher in baseball for 15 years
I'm not sure I would have Schilling in there either......but the eye test for me puts him closer than Mussina.
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Post by Zig on Jan 16, 2017 17:21:30 GMT -5
Sosa I think wouldnt have been anywhere near a HoFer without the eoids. Same with Macguire. Guys like Bonds and Manny could hit in their sleep
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Jan 16, 2017 17:22:59 GMT -5
Jason's Stark's ballot: no problem with it, except for this......you are obviously not taking steroids into account(Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, Pudge.) that is fine. Ton of roiders already in. so 1) how do you not vote Sosa in there? lead MLB in HRs twice years(and those weren't his THREE 60+ HRs years) RBIs 3 times, Total bases 3 times,runs 3 times.....over his 9 year prime, he AVERAGED 49 HRs and 127 RBIs.
and 2) Mussina? no....never one of the games best pitchers....just a bunch of good seasons compiled. He belongs with McGriff, Biggio, Baines, Tommy John, etc....... Yeah Sosa is basically forgotten - not blackballed, forgotten It's strange Not that I really care......he is a douche.....just be consistent. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jan 16, 2017 17:23:05 GMT -5
Is this what we're doing right now right? We're going to talk about Curt Schilling stats as a Baltimore Oriole? so he deserves the HOF based on his Boston career only? Lololol You literally just brought up the AL/NL narrative. Not me, Frank. You |
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Jan 16, 2017 17:23:31 GMT -5
Sosa I think wouldnt have been anywhere near a HoFer without the eoids. Same with Macguire. Guys like Bonds and Manny could hit in their sleep now you are guessing. |
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