bigddude
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Post by bigddude on Jun 3, 2014 12:00:20 GMT -5
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jun 3, 2014 12:04:19 GMT -5
I know I am in the sad minority that does not penalize a guy for doing the job his team asks him to do. I see nothing wrong with the best D.H guys getting into the HOF, be it Ortiz, or, the guy baseball named the annual D.H award after, Edgar Martinez. JMO I agree, I also think it would be a travesty if Adam Vinatieri is t elected into the hof... I just don't think Ortiz is a hall of famer, regardless of position... if you play the "he got in, so ortiz should...." who was a better hitter, ortiz or rice? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 12:09:23 GMT -5
possibly 500 HR+ and 1600+ RBI when all is said and done...not a HOFer
i dont get it
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bigddude
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Post by bigddude on Jun 3, 2014 12:11:13 GMT -5
I agree, I also think it would be a travesty if Adam Vinatieri is t elected into the hof... I just don't think Ortiz is a hall of famer, regardless of position... if you play the "he got in, so ortiz should...." who was a better hitter, ortiz or rice? Except for average, Ortiz has all the other better numbers. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:12:59 GMT -5
possibly 500 HR+ and 1600+ RBI when all is said and done...not a HOFer i dont get it When you only play one half of the game,you need to be better ban guys who play both ways. Defense should count too... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 12:15:47 GMT -5
possibly 500 HR+ and 1600+ RBI when all is said and done...not a HOFer i dont get it When you only play one half of the game,you need to be better ban guys who play both ways. Defense should count too... ok name all of the guys with 500+ HR and 1600 + RBI not in the HOF... thats a better mark then, if you want some fun...add 3 little WS titles to it |
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jun 3, 2014 12:18:01 GMT -5
possibly 500 HR+ and 1600+ RBI when all is said and done...not a HOFer i dont get it When you only play one half of the game,you need to be better ban guys who play both ways. Defense should count too... Jim Rice was a butcher in left Evans > Rice |
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Post by The Bag on Jun 3, 2014 12:18:05 GMT -5
And,.......that ain't gonna happen. Start clearing him a space in the very crowded Hall of the Very Good. He can keep David Ortiz company... ortiz is at WORST the second worst dh ever. rollins, average at best. did have a great glove though. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:19:08 GMT -5
When you only play one half of the game,you need to be better ban guys who play both ways. Defense should count too... ok name all of the guys with 500+ HR and 1600 + RBI not in the HOF... thats a better mark then, if you want some fun...add 3 little WS titles to it And how many of them have fewer than 2,200 career combined put outs and assists? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 12:20:21 GMT -5
ok name all of the guys with 500+ HR and 1600 + RBI not in the HOF... thats a better mark then, if you want some fun...add 3 little WS titles to it And how many of them have fewer than 2,200 career combined put outs and assists? how many guys not in the HOF have less than 2200 putouts? |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:21:30 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently?
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:23:33 GMT -5
If don mattingly is t in the hall of fame, it's comical to think Ortiz will be...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 12:25:01 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? ozzie smith omar vizquel one couldnt hit, one made himself a decent hitter there are a littany of others |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 12:26:26 GMT -5
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:29:35 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? ozzie smith omar vizquel one couldnt hit, one made himself a decent hitter there are a littany of others Ozzie smith had over 2,000 hits... And if I'm starting a team from scratch, I'm taking Vizquel over Ortiz in a heartbeat... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2014 12:32:17 GMT -5
ozzie smith omar vizquel one couldnt hit, one made himself a decent hitter there are a littany of others Ozzie smith had over 2,000 hits... And if I'm starting a team from scratch, I'm taking Vizquel over Ortiz in a heartbeat... so did rusty staub did you look at the list? sort by BA you'll be amazed (yes a lot are pitchers...weed thru it) |
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Post by down38str8 on Jun 3, 2014 12:32:27 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? So...you've never heard of Phil Rizzuto or Ozzie smith I take it... Or: Luis arapricio John Ward joe Tinker Virtually half of all HOF short stops are glove only guys.... I'd then direct my attention to 2nd base...where you'll find about a half dozen or so glove only guys... A few centerfielders... A catcher or 2... You hate him, we get it...that however doesn't entitle you to facts that do not exist... |
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bigddude
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Post by bigddude on Jun 3, 2014 12:32:42 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? Bill Mazerowski. Ozzie Smith. Luis Aparicio. Phil Rizzuto. |
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Post by down38str8 on Jun 3, 2014 12:34:17 GMT -5
ozzie smith omar vizquel one couldnt hit, one made himself a decent hitter there are a littany of others Ozzie smith had over 2,000 hits... And if I'm starting a team from scratch, I'm taking Vizquel over Ortiz in a heartbeat... Big whoop...ozzie smith played for 20 years...and had a career OPS+ of 87 His 162 average season was .262/.337/.328 .666 OPS, or...about 50 points below the ellsbury OPS you were laughing at an hour ago... |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:34:28 GMT -5
Hey, he might be in there one day, I just do t think he should be...
Between the steroids abuse and the litany of crap he pulled off the field... I don't think his overrated post-season resume should be enough to offset the fact that he is a dh...
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bigddude
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Post by bigddude on Jun 3, 2014 12:35:14 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? ozzie smith omar vizquel one couldnt hit, one made himself a decent hitter there are a littany of others A case of pre-mature elect-acation on Vizquel there Vince. He will and should make it though in a year or two when eligible. |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:35:43 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? So...you've never heard of Phil Rizzuto or Ozzie smith I take it... Or: Luis arapricio John Ward joe Tinker Virtually half of all HOF short stops are glove only guys.... I'd then direct my attention to 2nd base...where you'll find about a half dozen or so glove only guys... A few centerfielders... A catcher or 2... You hate him, we get it...that however doesn't entitle you to facts that do not exist... Ozzie Smith the hitter was infinitely better than David Ortiz the fielder... |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:37:28 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? Bill Mazerowski. Ozzie Smith. Luis Aparicio. Phil Rizzuto. Our definitions of "lousy" are not the same... |
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Post by The Bag on Jun 3, 2014 12:37:32 GMT -5
Hey, he might be in there one day, I just do t think he should be... Between the steroids abuse and the litany of crap he pulled off the field... I don't think his overrated post-season resume should be enough to offset the fact that he is a dh... "overrated post season resume" how many incredible title winning post seasons does a guy need before they arent overrated? |
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Post by down38str8 on Jun 3, 2014 12:38:45 GMT -5
Vizquel average season:
.272/.336/.352 4 HR 52 RBI 79 runs OPS+ 82
Career WAR: 42
Ortiz: 41.6 and still climbing...
Your nuts...Vizquel would be high up on my short stop list too becasue defense is huge at that position...but, an elite middle of the order bat is vastly more valuable...
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Post by down38str8 on Jun 3, 2014 12:39:57 GMT -5
So...you've never heard of Phil Rizzuto or Ozzie smith I take it... Or: Luis arapricio John Ward joe Tinker Virtually half of all HOF short stops are glove only guys.... I'd then direct my attention to 2nd base...where you'll find about a half dozen or so glove only guys... A few centerfielders... A catcher or 2... You hate him, we get it...that however doesn't entitle you to facts that do not exist... Ozzie Smith the hitter was infinitely better than David Ortiz the fielder... Not really...ortiz doesn't bring negative value to the team with his glove... Smiths bat did. |
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Post by redsoxworrld on Jun 3, 2014 12:41:54 GMT -5
I hope not. However, I know I am in the sad minority that does not penalize a guy for doing the job his team asks him to do. I see nothing wrong with the best D.H guys getting into the HOF, be it Ortiz, or, the guy baseball named the annual D.H award after, Edgar Martinez. JMO I agree, I also think it would be a travesty if Adam Vinatieri is t elected into the hof... I just don't think Ortiz is a hall of famer, regardless of position... likely to retire as best ever at his position, and yeah I know it is DH at least three titles one of the faces of baseball in his tenure he'll get in, just won't be first ballot |
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Post by Just Another Shem on Jun 3, 2014 12:42:27 GMT -5
Hey, he might be in there one day, I just do t think he should be... Between the steroids abuse and the litany of crap he pulled off the field... I don't think his overrated post-season resume should be enough to offset the fact that he is a dh... "overrated post season resume" how many incredible title winning post seasons does a guy need before they arent overrated? It's comical the amount of mileage Ortiz is getting off of that one grand slam vs Detroit last year... |
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Jun 3, 2014 12:42:29 GMT -5
If elite defensive players who are lousy hitters don't sniff the hall of fame... Why should elite hitters who are putrid defenders be treated any differently? Bill Mazerowski. Ozzie Smith. Luis Aparicio. Phil Rizzuto. but frank white couldnt sniff it |
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Post by redsoxworrld on Jun 3, 2014 12:42:50 GMT -5
When you only play one half of the game,you need to be better ban guys who play both ways. Defense should count too... Jim Rice was a butcher in left Evans > Rice if Evans first half of his career was like his second half, he'd be a no doubt HOFr |
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