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Post by Super Paul Mullin on Dec 23, 2014 17:06:31 GMT -5
Subject was brought up during Sunday nights Seahawks - Cards game. Great single season stats but doesn't have the overall stats largely because he only played 11 seasons (12 actually but he played in only one game that first year).
I also forgot he was on the Giants for one year.
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Post by BHR on Dec 23, 2014 17:12:00 GMT -5
Subject was brought up during Sunday nights Seahawks - Cards game. Great single season stats but doesn't have the overall stats largely because he only played 11 seasons (12 actually but he played in only one game that first year). I also forgot he was on the Giants for one year. 1 or 2 superbowl wins? |
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Post by Super Paul Mullin on Dec 23, 2014 17:24:58 GMT -5
1 and 2 in superbowl appearances. Pretty good - I think two or more full seasons under his belt and he's a no doubter. He'll still probably make it.
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Dec 27, 2014 14:24:14 GMT -5
No, he is not a Hall of Famer
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Dec 27, 2014 14:46:29 GMT -5
Subject was brought up during Sunday nights Seahawks - Cards game. Great single season stats but doesn't have the overall stats largely because he only played 11 seasons (12 actually but he played in only one game that first year). I also forgot he was on the Giants for one year. I'm sure he'd like to forget it too He was still under post-Martz blocking scheme traumatic shock syndrome. It has affected a few QB's most notably Warner and Bulger. It was what gave Whisenhunt the QB-whisperer/guru persona bringing Warner back from where every time he saw a blitz he threw the ball away. To sticking in there to complete the pass. Oh yeah the topic. Is Warner a HoFer? If he didn't suffer from PMBSTSS for a few seasons I'd say yes but he basically sat for 2 1/2 seasons in his prime 1 with the Rams 1 with the Giants 1/2 with the Cards even if he'd have gone 2-1 in the SB's instead of 1-2 I'd say yes . I expect he'll be a finalist multiple times but the longer he doesn't make it with the rise in passing stats it becomes more unlikely every season |
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Post by Zig on Dec 27, 2014 14:48:31 GMT -5
This was asked on CBS a few years back and I was in the vast minority that said "no". I don't think it's even close but he was a good "story" so he has a chance I guess.
His first year ('99) he was just awesome and they won the Super Bowl. But after that he was barely above average. 2001 he also lead all QBs in a lot of stats but he also had 22 INTs...and 10 fumbles...He was really a turnover machine, almost 2 per game for his career. He started 113 games, had 128 INTs and 102 fumbles. He seems to get a pass for that part but that's like the most important thing for a QB...don't turn it over. He did that waaay too much
also, it's a poll now so VOTE
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Dec 27, 2014 14:48:42 GMT -5
No, he is not a Hall of Famer You've got so many drinks in your profile by the time I get to the end of your quote I usually have to scroll up to remember what you posted  |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Dec 27, 2014 14:56:02 GMT -5
This was asked on CBS a few years back and I was in the vast minority that said "no". I don't think it's even close but he was a good "story" so he has a chance I guess. His first year ('99) he was just awesome and they won the Super Bowl. But after that he was barely above average. 2001 he also lead all QBs in a lot of stats but he also had 22 INTs...and 10 fumbles...He was really a turnover machine, almost 2 per game for his career. He started 113 games, had 128 INTs and 102 fumbles. He seems to get a pass for that part but that's like the most important thing for a QB...don't turn it over. He did that waaay too much also, it's a poll now so VOTE This is common in Martz run offenses as he doesn't believe in help for blockers (ie RB chipping before going out on route). These were also the first signs of PMBSTSS that afflicted him |
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Post by Zig on Dec 27, 2014 15:01:00 GMT -5
This was asked on CBS a few years back and I was in the vast minority that said "no". I don't think it's even close but he was a good "story" so he has a chance I guess. His first year ('99) he was just awesome and they won the Super Bowl. But after that he was barely above average. 2001 he also lead all QBs in a lot of stats but he also had 22 INTs...and 10 fumbles...He was really a turnover machine, almost 2 per game for his career. He started 113 games, had 128 INTs and 102 fumbles. He seems to get a pass for that part but that's like the most important thing for a QB...don't turn it over. He did that waaay too much also, it's a poll now so VOTE This is common in Martz run offenses as he doesn't believe in help for blockers (ie RB chipping before going out on route). These were also the first signs of PMBSTSS that afflicted him I'm afraid to ask what PMBSTSS is since g000gle didnt know |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 15:03:47 GMT -5
Subject was brought up during Sunday nights Seahawks - Cards game. Great single season stats but doesn't have the overall stats largely because he only played 11 seasons (12 actually but he played in only one game that first year). I also forgot he was on the Giants for one year. I'm sure he'd like to forget it too He was still under post-Martz blocking scheme traumatic shock syndrome. It has affected a few QB's most notably Warner and Bulger. It was what gave Whisenhunt the QB-whisperer/guru persona bringing Warner back from where every time he saw a blitz he threw the ball away. To sticking in there to complete the pass. Oh yeah the topic. Is Warner a HoFer? If he didn't suffer from PMBSTSS for a few seasons I'd say yes but he basically sat for 2 1/2 seasons in his prime 1 with the Rams 1 with the Giants 1/2 with the Cards even if he'd have gone 2-1 in the SB's instead of 1-2 I'd say yes . I expect he'll be a finalist multiple times but the longer he doesn't make it with the rise in passing stats it becomes more unlikely every season The PMSTTSSBWGGSSTT syndrome stuff may have been the ultimate issue, but his original problem was not psychological, it was physical. It started with an injury to his throwing hand. |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Dec 27, 2014 15:08:41 GMT -5
This is common in Martz run offenses as he doesn't believe in help for blockers (ie RB chipping before going out on route). These were also the first signs of PMBSTSS that afflicted him I'm afraid to ask what PMBSTSS is since g000gle didnt know See my original post |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Dec 27, 2014 15:12:53 GMT -5
Subject was brought up during Sunday nights Seahawks - Cards game. Great single season stats but doesn't have the overall stats largely because he only played 11 seasons (12 actually but he played in only one game that first year). I also forgot he was on the Giants for one year. I'm sure he'd like to forget it too He was still under Post-Martz Blocking Scheme Traumatic Shock Syndrome. It has affected a few QB's most notably Warner and Bulger. It was what gave Whisenhunt the QB-whisperer/guru persona bringing Warner back from where every time he saw a blitz he threw the ball away. To sticking in there to complete the pass. Oh yeah the topic. Is Warner a HoFer? If he didn't suffer from PMBSTSS for a few seasons I'd say yes but he basically sat for 2 1/2 seasons in his prime 1 with the Rams 1 with the Giants 1/2 with the Cards even if he'd have gone 2-1 in the SB's instead of 1-2 I'd say yes . I expect he'll be a finalist multiple times but the longer he doesn't make it with the rise in passing stats it becomes more unlikely every season See ^^^^ |
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BUCCS469
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Post by BUCCS469 on Dec 27, 2014 15:21:33 GMT -5
i think so......no one considered either the rams or cardinals serious superbowl contenders the years he took them there....also how many qbs have taken 2 different teams to the superbowl.....even though he didnt play as long as a lot of guy what he did in that time was pretty fucking impressive.
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BUCCS469
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Post by BUCCS469 on Dec 27, 2014 15:30:07 GMT -5
i think so......no one considered either the rams or cardinals serious superbowl contenders the years he took them there....also how many qbs have taken 2 different teams to the superbowl.....even though he didnt play as long as a lot of guys what he did in that time was pretty fucking impressive. |
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BUCCS469
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Post by BUCCS469 on Dec 27, 2014 15:32:56 GMT -5
oh and this he played mostly in the pre nfl is a pussy and defense being played is illegal era.....thats stats are skewed big time now because even pieces of shit can put up good numbers....
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Dec 27, 2014 15:40:18 GMT -5
played 16 games three times in his career
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Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Dec 27, 2014 15:47:35 GMT -5
3000 yards 6 times
faulk, bruce, holt, fitzgerald, bolden
has anybody ever had more talent around him than this guy?
half of his games in a dome. when he played for an outdoor team, he sucked ass
great story
good qb
not a hall of famer
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Dec 27, 2014 16:13:36 GMT -5
I'm sure he'd like to forget it too He was still under post-Martz blocking scheme traumatic shock syndrome. It has affected a few QB's most notably Warner and Bulger. It was what gave Whisenhunt the QB-whisperer/guru persona bringing Warner back from where every time he saw a blitz he threw the ball away. To sticking in there to complete the pass. Oh yeah the topic. Is Warner a HoFer? If he didn't suffer from PMBSTSS for a few seasons I'd say yes but he basically sat for 2 1/2 seasons in his prime 1 with the Rams 1 with the Giants 1/2 with the Cards even if he'd have gone 2-1 in the SB's instead of 1-2 I'd say yes . I expect he'll be a finalist multiple times but the longer he doesn't make it with the rise in passing stats it becomes more unlikely every season The PMSTTSSBWGGSSTT syndrome stuff may have been the ultimate issue, but his original problem was not psychological, it was physical. It started with an injury to his throwing hand. Hand injuries are a weekly type injury PMBSTSS goes on for seasons careers even (see Bulger, Marc) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 11:15:32 GMT -5
The PMSTTSSBWGGSSTT syndrome stuff may have been the ultimate issue, but his original problem was not psychological, it was physical. It started with an injury to his throwing hand. Hand injuries are a weekly type injury PMBSTSS goes on for seasons careers even (see Bulger, Marc) Warner attributed his declining stats to a hand injury that didn't heal. < en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warner > But maybe you know what was wrong with Kurt better than Kurt knows what was wrong with Kurt. |
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Otis B. Driftwood
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 3, 2015 11:31:11 GMT -5
Is he a HOF'er?
Probably.
Is he a first ballot HOF'er?
No.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 11:44:51 GMT -5
Is he a HOF'er? Probably. Is he a first ballot HOF'er? No. Kurt's primary problems: 1. Not enough year's of above average performance. 2. A 7-year gap between his great years in St Louis and his great years in Arizona.
Eli Manning has two superbowl victories. Is he a HOF QB? No. So how can Warner be? Warner's regular season stats can't touch Eli's.
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Otis B. Driftwood
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 3, 2015 11:56:51 GMT -5
Is he a HOF'er? Probably. Is he a first ballot HOF'er? No. Kurt's primary problems: 1. Not enough year's of above average performance. 2. A 7-year gap between his great years in St Louis and his great years in Arizona.
Eli Manning has two superbowl victories. Is he a HOF QB? No. So how can Warner be? Warner's regular season stats can't touch Eli's.
I can sum up my feelings about Kurt Warner this way. Was he better than the Snake? Because the Snake isn't in the HOF. He should be. Personally... I think Snake had a better body of work (all those championship games and a ring). I don't mind Warner being in. Not as a first time nominee though and damn sure not until the Snake is in. Now - on to Drew Pearson... |
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Post by Center Ice on Jan 3, 2015 12:48:56 GMT -5
Warner retired with an incredible 93.7 quarterback rating while throwing 208 touchdowns and accumulating 32,344 passing yards during his 12-year career. He should be in.
So should The Snake as well as Brett.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 13:14:24 GMT -5
Kurt's primary problems: 1. Not enough year's of above average performance. 2. A 7-year gap between his great years in St Louis and his great years in Arizona.
Eli Manning has two superbowl victories. Is he a HOF QB? No. So how can Warner be? Warner's regular season stats can't touch Eli's.
I can sum up my feelings about Kurt Warner this way. Was he better than the Snake? Because the Snake isn't in the HOF. He should be. Personally... I think Snake had a better body of work (all those championship games and a ring). I don't mind Warner being in. Not as a first time nominee though and damn sure not until the Snake is in. Now - on to Drew Pearson... I don't think those kind of comparisons are fair. "Player X is in(not in), so is he better than Player Y?" The debate should be about was Warner's career HoF worthy, not was Stabler's. That's an entirely different topic. Warner won 2 league MVP's, won a Super Bowl, and came within 35 seconds of winning another with the Cardinals - the friggin' Cardinals for chrissakes! The fact that he disappeared for the middle part of his career actually makes his story more interesting and helps his HoF case, in my opinion. He was no Terrelle Davis. The HoF isn't just about stats. It's about the story of the NFL. And you won't be able to tell that story without telling the story of Kurt Warner. He gets in. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 13:17:26 GMT -5
Stats are a bullshit indicator for NFL HoF anyway. For the baseball HoF, sure they are somewhat more relevant. But you can't as easily compare NFL stats across eras like you can with baseball. Too many rule changes.
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Otis B. Driftwood
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 3, 2015 13:45:07 GMT -5
I can sum up my feelings about Kurt Warner this way. Was he better than the Snake? Because the Snake isn't in the HOF. He should be. Personally... I think Snake had a better body of work (all those championship games and a ring). I don't mind Warner being in. Not as a first time nominee though and damn sure not until the Snake is in. Now - on to Drew Pearson... I don't think those kind of comparisons are fair. "Player X is in(not in), so is he better than Player Y?" The debate should be about was Warner's career HoF worthy, not was Stabler's. That's an entirely different topic. Warner won 2 league MVP's, won a Super Bowl, and came within 35 seconds of winning another with the Cardinals - the friggin' Cardinals for chrissakes! The fact that he disappeared for the middle part of his career actually makes his story more interesting and helps his HoF case, in my opinion. He was no Terrelle Davis. The HoF isn't just about stats. It's about the story of the NFL. And you won't be able to tell that story without telling the story of Kurt Warner. He gets in. As much as I would like to agree with your comment that "the HoF isn't just about stats"... that is precisely the argument made every time Drew Pearson's name comes up. Stats... It's why discussions about any HoF are so damn frustrating. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 13:47:39 GMT -5
Eli Manning has two superbowl victories. Is he a HOF QB? No. So how can Warner be? Warner's regular season stats can't touch Eli's.
Manning has 11 seasons post the 2004 passing game rule changes, Warner only had 6 and of course wasn't a starter for many of those. Warner bagged groceries and played in the Arena league, while NFL family royalty Manning kicked and screamed his way out of San Diego. That's how. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 13:52:31 GMT -5
I don't think those kind of comparisons are fair. "Player X is in(not in), so is he better than Player Y?" The debate should be about was Warner's career HoF worthy, not was Stabler's. That's an entirely different topic. Warner won 2 league MVP's, won a Super Bowl, and came within 35 seconds of winning another with the Cardinals - the friggin' Cardinals for chrissakes! The fact that he disappeared for the middle part of his career actually makes his story more interesting and helps his HoF case, in my opinion. He was no Terrelle Davis. The HoF isn't just about stats. It's about the story of the NFL. And you won't be able to tell that story without telling the story of Kurt Warner. He gets in. As much as I would like to agree with your comment that "the HoF isn't just about stats"... that is precisely the argument made every time Drew Pearson's name comes up. Stats... It's why discussions about any HoF are so damn frustrating. He clearly pushed off.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 13:57:23 GMT -5
Eli Manning has two superbowl victories. Is he a HOF QB? No. So how can Warner be? Warner's regular season stats can't touch Eli's.
Manning has 11 seasons post the 2004 passing game rule changes, Warner only had 6 and of course wasn't a starter for many of those. Warner bagged groceries and played in the Arena league, while NFL family royalty Manning kicked and screamed his way out of San Diego. That's how. As a previous poster stated in this thread, being an interesting story should not have any bearing on Warner's HOF worthiness, so mentioning it here is pointless. I don't care if he bagged groceries in Iowa or bagged 60-year-old heiresses in Vegas. It should be all about, and only about, what he did on the field. On field he only had five season above average for a QB in his era. That's not HOF material.
By the way, as long as you are mentioning kicking and screaming QBs, let's not forget that John Elway kicked and screamed his way off of the then Baltimore Colts and I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.
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Post by Canuck eh? on Jan 3, 2015 14:00:15 GMT -5
I don't think those kind of comparisons are fair. "Player X is in(not in), so is he better than Player Y?" The debate should be about was Warner's career HoF worthy, not was Stabler's. That's an entirely different topic. Warner won 2 league MVP's, won a Super Bowl, and came within 35 seconds of winning another with the Cardinals - the friggin' Cardinals for chrissakes! The fact that he disappeared for the middle part of his career actually makes his story more interesting and helps his HoF case, in my opinion. He was no Terrelle Davis. The HoF isn't just about stats. It's about the story of the NFL. And you won't be able to tell that story without telling the story of Kurt Warner. He gets in. As much as I would like to agree with your comment that "the HoF isn't just about stats"... that is precisely the argument made every time Drew Pearson's name comes up. Stats... It's why discussions about any HoF are so damn frustrating. Fuck Drew Pearson! I still say it was offensive pass interference. |
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