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Post by Zig on Jan 8, 2018 21:45:41 GMT -5
I seem to be in the minority (which isn't unusual) but I don't think the Patriots "traded the wrong QB". My reasoning is simple- I have seen 1 QB lead his team to 5 Super Bowl victories while the other hasn't so much as played in a play off game yet. Sure Garapollo has looked good to very good so far but again, in a small sample of regular season games. There is a lengthy list of QBs who flashed brilliance in a handful of games then faded off into obscurity. Recently we've had RGIII, Osweiller, Anderson, Kaepernick...And winning Super Bowls is very hard. Plenty of other "very good" QBs play their best during the regular season then when the big games start they can't stand the heat. Why would I want to trade a proven commodity for an unknown?
"Brady is 40, he can't play at this level much longer". Yes, this sadly is true. I actually expected to see some decline last year. That didn't happen. So I thought for sure it was coming this year but again, didn't happen. He was named 1st team All-Pro and is the favorite to win MVP. Another 13 win season, poised to make another run at the Super Bowl. We pretty much take that for granted don't we? And some think we traded the wrong QB?...I am now convinced Brady can play another 2 or 3 years at a high enough level to keep the Pats train rolling. The key is the rest of the team really and with Brady's contract being a bargain compared to what many other QBs are getting paid it shouldn't be hard to keep the team on top of the AFC (if not the NFL) for at least a few more years. They can return to the early days of this incredible run and lean more on the running game and defense, or even to the previous years before this one with more quick/shorter passes. Half the battle for a QB is to NOT lose you the game and Brady does that- the "game management" part better than anyone. Not to mention Tom didn't get where he is today due his athletic ability or strong arm so if he declines physically a little bit how much does that really matter?
Some Patriots fans were convinced after 1.5 games that Jimmy was the real deal. I wasn't one of them and that hasn't changed now that he's up to 6.5 games -with exactly 0 of those being remotely close to a "big game".
Maybe I'm wrong and Jimmy will be the next Montana/Brady but odds are, he won't be. I also believe if any Patriot deserves to be kept 1 year "too long" it is Tom. I am not so greedy that I want to kick one of the best I've ever seen to the curb so we can keep the kid I hope can keep this thing going. I will gladly stick with the guy I am pretty sure can win us another Lombardi (or 2) because I have actually seen him do it, over a guy I have seen play a hand full of regular season games. Again well aware I am in the minority.
On to Tennesee
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 9, 2018 1:21:58 GMT -5
I seem to be in the minority (which isn't unusual) but I don't think the Patriots "traded the wrong QB". My reasoning is simple- I have seen 1 QB lead his team to 5 Super Bowl victories while the other hasn't so much as played in a play off game yet. Sure Garapollo has looked good to very good so far but again, in a small sample of regular season games. There is a lengthy list of QBs who flashed brilliance in a handful of games then faded off into obscurity. Recently we've had RGIII, Osweiller, Anderson, Kaepernick...And winning Super Bowls is very hard. Plenty of other "very good" QBs play their best during the regular season then when the big games start they can't stand the heat. Why would I want to trade a proven commodity for an unknown? "Brady is 40, he can't play at this level much longer". Yes, this sadly is true. I actually expected to see some decline last year. That didn't happen. So I thought for sure it was coming this year but again, didn't happen. He was named 1st team All-Pro and is the favorite to win MVP. Another 13 win season, poised to make another run at the Super Bowl. We pretty much take that for granted don't we? And some think we traded the wrong QB?...I am now convinced Brady can play another 2 or 3 years at a high enough level to keep the Pats train rolling. The key is the rest of the team really and with Brady's contract being a bargain compared to what many other QBs are getting paid it shouldn't be hard to keep the team on top of the AFC (if not the NFL) for at least a few more years. They can return to the early days of this incredible run and lean more on the running game and defense, or even to the previous years before this one with more quick/shorter passes. Half the battle for a QB is to NOT lose you the game and Brady does that- the "game management" part better than anyone. Not to mention Tom didn't get where he is today due his athletic ability or strong arm so if he declines physically a little bit how much does that really matter? Some Patriots fans were convinced after 1.5 games that Jimmy was the real deal. I wasn't one of them and that hasn't changed now that he's up to 6.5 games -with exactly 0 of those being remotely close to a "big game". Maybe I'm wrong and Jimmy will be the next Montana/Brady but odds are, he won't be. I also believe if any Patriot deserves to be kept 1 year "too long" it is Tom. I am not so greedy that I want to kick one of the best I've ever seen to the curb so we can keep the kid I hope can keep this thing going. I will gladly stick with the guy I am pretty sure can win us another Lombardi (or 2) because I have actually seen him do it, over a guy I have seen play a hand full of regular season games. Again well aware I am in the minority. On to Tennessee Agree and disagree. No Jimmy is not being fitted for a gold jacket yet (or anytime in the near future) whereas TB12's is already awaiting him. I liked Jimmy 2nd best of the QB's in that draft, (I love quick twitch passers). He killed it at the Senior Bowl so I had no worries about strength of competition, but he went to a team with no need for a starter in New England and sat and sat. He has a lot of learning to do but he seems to have that will to be better that elite QB's have. I have no doubt he will be at least a red chip QB and as for coaching up, you can do a helluva lot worse than Josh and Kyle, just ask Jared Goff. As for TB12 yes he has no zip left on his fastball and he doesn't get out of pocket trouble as well with the slowing of his reflexes as he used to. My honest opinion is in the next season or 2 a noticeable decline in his play will set in, (His end of year play wasn't that good to be truthful) and when his line can't keep the backfield clean he's going to struggle. It is a Catch 22 spot the Pats were in, keep the greatest QB the Pats will ever have or realize time waits for no man and move on like the Niners did when they let Montana go to the Chiefs. I'd have sent him to Arizona and taken Jimmy's growing pains. Team comes first. Sentiment is for memories |
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Post by EWA Beach PGH Fan on Jan 9, 2018 8:59:18 GMT -5
Short-term, no. Long-term, YES!!! They should've held onto both!!!!!!!!
NE had the hair apparent in the fold and traded him away. Considering how hard it is to find franchise QBs that will come back to haunt them very soon. As Zig said in his post, there are a lot of flash in the pans that look good to great short-term but aren't true franchise QBs in the long-term. Granted, any heir to Brady will pale in comparison but a suitable replace can be found. Look at the Packers going from Favre to Rodgers as one example. And when you don't, you get the 20-years the Steelers had between Bradshaw and Big Ben.
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Post by Zig on Jan 9, 2018 11:27:35 GMT -5
Short-term, no. Long-term, YES!!! They should've held onto both!!!!!!!! NE had the hair apparent in the fold and traded him away. Considering how hard it is to find franchise QBs that will come back to haunt them very soon. As Zig said in his post, there are a lot of flash in the pans that look good to great short-term but aren't true franchise QBs in the long-term. Granted, any heir to Brady will pale in comparison but a suitable replace can be found. Look at the Packers going from Favre to Rodgers as one example. And when you don't, you get the 20-years the Steelers had between Bradshaw and Big Ben. Well they did try to extend him but declined because he wants to start. They couldn't realistically franchise tag him-that would be about 40 mil for 1 position and it'd be more than Brady is making. Also you need to have the cap room to use the tag which for QBs is expected to 23 mil...They'd have to make some cuts to make that work. And Brady's contract is such that if he were traded his cap number is about 27 mil, not many teams can take that on at the deadline. They had a plan but Brady kind of messed it up by still playing at a high level...I will also add that Bill also wont be coaching much longer. He'll be as irreplaceable as Tom so this thing is/was going to end soon even with Jimmy. Hopefully Bill can find the next "next guy"... |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 10, 2018 6:33:45 GMT -5
Short-term, no. Long-term, YES!!! They should've held onto both!!!!!!!! NE had the hair apparent in the fold and traded him away. Considering how hard it is to find franchise QBs that will come back to haunt them very soon. As Zig said in his post, there are a lot of flash in the pans that look good to great short-term but aren't true franchise QBs in the long-term. Granted, any heir to Brady will pale in comparison but a suitable replace can be found. Look at the Packers going from Favre to Rodgers as one example. And when you don't, you get the 20-years the Steelers had between Bradshaw and Big Ben. No trading TB in season not a chance but the secession plan should have happened this off season |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 10, 2018 7:34:04 GMT -5
Short-term, no. Long-term, YES!!! They should've held onto both!!!!!!!! NE had the hair apparent in the fold and traded him away. Considering how hard it is to find franchise QBs that will come back to haunt them very soon. As Zig said in his post, there are a lot of flash in the pans that look good to great short-term but aren't true franchise QBs in the long-term. Granted, any heir to Brady will pale in comparison but a suitable replace can be found. Look at the Packers going from Favre to Rodgers as one example. And when you don't, you get the 20-years the Steelers had between Bradshaw and Big Ben. Well they did try to extend him but declined because he wants to start. They couldn't realistically franchise tag him-that would be about 40 mil for 1 position and it'd be more than Brady is making. Also you need to have the cap room to use the tag which for QBs is expected to 23 mil...They'd have to make some cuts to make that work. And Brady's contract is such that if he were traded his cap number is about 27 mil, not many teams can take that on at the deadline. They had a plan but Brady kind of messed it up by still playing at a high level...I will also add that Bill also wont be coaching much longer. He'll be as irreplaceable as Tom so this thing is/was going to end soon even with Jimmy. Hopefully Bill can find the next "next guy"... They messed it up trying to protect his salary from deflategate. It's on them they should have just gave him a different stagger. Two seasons making minimum with huge bonuses was retarded. His off season cap hit is 14M. They would have had to give Jimmy far more than that to keep him. Steelers are real bad for that (or have been) |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 10, 2018 7:40:55 GMT -5
Short-term, no. Long-term, YES!!! They should've held onto both!!!!!!!! NE had the hair apparent in the fold and traded him away. Considering how hard it is to find franchise QBs that will come back to haunt them very soon. As Zig said in his post, there are a lot of flash in the pans that look good to great short-term but aren't true franchise QBs in the long-term. Granted, any heir to Brady will pale in comparison but a suitable replace can be found. Look at the Packers going from Favre to Rodgers as one example. And when you don't, you get the 20-years the Steelers had between Bradshaw and Big Ben. Well they did try to extend him but declined because he wants to start. They couldn't realistically franchise tag him-that would be about 40 mil for 1 position and it'd be more than Brady is making. Also you need to have the cap room to use the tag which for QBs is expected to 23 mil...They'd have to make some cuts to make that work. And Brady's contract is such that if he were traded his cap number is about 27 mil, not many teams can take that on at the deadline. They had a plan but Brady kind of messed it up by still playing at a high level...I will also add that Bill also wont be coaching much longer. He'll be as irreplaceable as Tom so this thing is/was going to end soon even with Jimmy. Hopefully Bill can find the next "next guy"... With his love of the history of the game I could see him becoming a committee member at the HoF. For the seniors selection group |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 10, 2018 7:41:52 GMT -5
Well they did try to extend him but declined because he wants to start. They couldn't realistically franchise tag him-that would be about 40 mil for 1 position and it'd be more than Brady is making. Also you need to have the cap room to use the tag which for QBs is expected to 23 mil...They'd have to make some cuts to make that work. And Brady's contract is such that if he were traded his cap number is about 27 mil, not many teams can take that on at the deadline. They had a plan but Brady kind of messed it up by still playing at a high level...I will also add that Bill also wont be coaching much longer. He'll be as irreplaceable as Tom so this thing is/was going to end soon even with Jimmy. Hopefully Bill can find the next "next guy"... With his love of the history of the game I could see him becoming a committee member at the HoF. For the seniors selection groupOtherwise Troy Brown would be a shoo-in |
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Otis B. Driftwood
VIP Member
I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 10, 2018 8:21:00 GMT -5
I know it's been stated that Little Bill would have never traded Jimmy G to the Browns... so I can kinda give a pass on that one although I'm convinced he could have gotten at least a #1 and possibly more from that bunch of morons.
But I find it inconceivable he couldn't have gotten a #1 somewhere... somehow.
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Post by Zig on Jan 10, 2018 8:30:37 GMT -5
I know it's been stated that Little Bill would have never traded Jimmy G to the Browns... so I can kinda give a pass on that one although I'm convinced he could have gotten at least a #1 and possibly more from that bunch of morons. But I find it inconceivable he couldn't have gotten a #1 somewhere... somehow. I've heard a couple "hot takes" on this. 1) that when Bill went to Kraft to say the best offer he got was a 2nd he was hoping Kraft said not to take it and 2) He did Jimmy a solid so maybe he'll come back down the road... I also thought it was strange when he turned better offers for Cassel |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 10, 2018 9:06:50 GMT -5
I know it's been stated that Little Bill would have never traded Jimmy G to the Browns... so I can kinda give a pass on that one although I'm convinced he could have gotten at least a #1 and possibly more from that bunch of morons. But I find it inconceivable he couldn't have gotten a #1 somewhere... somehow. Waited WAY too long. Most of the teams that might have pulled the trigger had vacancies at GM and/or coach last week. |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 10, 2018 9:11:19 GMT -5
I know it's been stated that Little Bill would have never traded Jimmy G to the Browns... so I can kinda give a pass on that one although I'm convinced he could have gotten at least a #1 and possibly more from that bunch of morons. But I find it inconceivable he couldn't have gotten a #1 somewhere... somehow. I've heard a couple "hot takes" on this. 1) that when Bill went to Kraft to say the best offer he got was a 2nd he was hoping Kraft said not to take it and 2) He did Jimmy a solid so maybe he'll come back down the road... I also thought it was strange when he turned better offers for Cassel Cassel had just started 15 NFL games the season before. Jimmy started 2. Of course Jimmy started 50+ college games to Cassel's 0 |
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Post by EWA Beach PGH Fan on Jan 10, 2018 9:56:43 GMT -5
I know it's been stated that Little Bill would have never traded Jimmy G to the Browns... so I can kinda give a pass on that one although I'm convinced he could have gotten at least a #1 and possibly more from that bunch of morons. But I find it inconceivable he couldn't have gotten a #1 somewhere... somehow. I've heard a couple "hot takes" on this. 1) that when Bill went to Kraft to say the best offer he got was a 2nd he was hoping Kraft said not to take it and 2) He did Jimmy a solid so maybe he'll come back down the road... I also thought it was strange when he turned better offers for Cassel Then Cassel played in KC and we all understood. |
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Post by redseat on Nov 16, 2018 18:53:51 GMT -5
Obviously too late to the party but doesn't appear that they did just yet since Jimmy G is out... Now are we truly to believe he will continue to do what he can do until he is 45... No way but Jimmy G trading away I'm ok with it.. They weren't going to keep him with that Cap hit. I think they royally screwed up the trade because they should have gotten more and would have from the Browns but that's hindsight. Then again I really do wonder if they truly wanted to trade him to the 49ers from the get go
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