Mr mastodon farm
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Post by Mr mastodon farm on Apr 6, 2016 11:06:46 GMT -5
If Harvey was in Milwaukee we wouldn't even know he existed. The guy is 27 yrs old and has a grand total of 25 career wins. Historically that places him with about 10,000 others. The only reason we know of him is becuz he's in NY and acts like a fuckin 12 yr old. For a little perspective - at the exact same stage career wise Greg Maddux had exactly 95 wins. Harvey will go down as another avg pitcher with a big mouth. Hell he won't even come close to someone like Schilling and he was at least an entertaining asshole.
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Post by b1ake on Apr 6, 2016 11:08:31 GMT -5
If Harvey was in Milwaukee we wouldn't even know he existed. The guy is 27 yrs old and has a grand total of 25 career wins. Historically that places him with about 10,000 others. The only reason we know of him is becuz he's in NY and acts like a fuckin 12 yr old. For a little perspective - at the exact same stage career wise Greg Maddux had exactly 95 wins. Harvey will go down as another avg pitcher with a big mouth. Hell he won't even come close to someone like Schilling and he was at least an entertaining asshole. A very smart person wrote that. |
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Post by Super Paul Mullin on Apr 6, 2016 11:25:00 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20?
We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery?
Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+
Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+
So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board.
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OXlodge
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Post by OXlodge on Apr 6, 2016 11:27:51 GMT -5
Harvey>>>>>Strasburg
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Post by Super Paul Mullin on Apr 6, 2016 11:29:56 GMT -5
No no no! Strasburg has 54 wins! |
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bigddude
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Post by bigddude on Apr 6, 2016 11:38:12 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20? We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery? Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+ Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+ So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board. I must of missed said bashing. I know I did not contribute to it. |
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Post by b1ake on Apr 6, 2016 11:38:53 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20? We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery? Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+ Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+ So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board. If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. |
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OXlodge
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Post by OXlodge on Apr 6, 2016 11:41:50 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20? We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery? Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+ Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+ So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board. If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. He's not even considered the ace on the Mets by his own city or his team. |
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bigddude
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Post by bigddude on Apr 6, 2016 11:42:20 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20? We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery? Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+ Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+ So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board. If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. With a pinch / dash of "The rotation is so good, which one is the real ace" tossed in. |
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Post by b1ake on Apr 6, 2016 11:45:13 GMT -5
If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. He's not even considered the ace on the Mets by his own city or his team. Agreed, but I see plenty of "Met's Ace" Matt Harvey stories out there.. |
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Apr 6, 2016 11:45:23 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20? We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery? Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+ Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+ So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board. If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. His status as an ace......disappeared last night.(for everyone else, smart people knew it already) |
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Post by Super Paul Mullin on Apr 6, 2016 11:45:45 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20? We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery? Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+ Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+ So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board. If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. Harvey's status as an ace is only called into question because he's got to compete with DeGrommit and Syndergaaaaaaard. Harvey would have been the ace on the Sox, Yankees, and Orioles last year. He'd sure as hell be the ace on the Phillies and Brewers. |
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OXlodge
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Post by OXlodge on Apr 6, 2016 11:46:53 GMT -5
If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. Harvey's status as an ace is only called into question because he's got to compete with DeGrommit and Syndergaaaaaaard. Harvey would have been the ace on the Sox, Yankees, and Orioles last year. He'd sure as hell be the ace on the Phillies and Brewers. I think you left out another team fuck face. |
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Post by Super Paul Mullin on Apr 6, 2016 11:48:42 GMT -5
Harvey's status as an ace is only called into question because he's got to compete with DeGrommit and Syndergaaaaaaard. Harvey would have been the ace on the Sox, Yankees, and Orioles last year. He'd sure as hell be the ace on the Phillies and Brewers. I think you left out another team fuck face. No I didn't. I think Williams perez is way better than Harvey. |
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Post by Scalious on Apr 6, 2016 11:48:45 GMT -5
So we're going punish Harvey because he didn't hit the bigs until 23 while Maddux (no doubt HOFer) started pitching when he was 20? We're going to punish Harvey for having TJ surgery? Maddux through age 26: 3.35 ERA 1.25 WHIP 115 ERA+ Harvey though age 26: 2.53 ERA 1.00 WHIP 144 ERA+ So we're relying on wins to bash this guy? Nice objectivity on this board. If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. Dis-agree. He'd still be considered an ace if he pitched for the Brewers.. |
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Post by b1ake on Apr 6, 2016 11:48:58 GMT -5
If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. Harvey's status as an ace is only called into question because he's got to compete with DeGrommit and Syndergaaaaaaard. Harvey would have been the ace on the Sox, Yankees, and Orioles last year. He'd sure as hell be the ace on the Phillies and Brewers. So he's not that good, is what you're saying? |
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Post by b1ake on Apr 6, 2016 11:50:42 GMT -5
If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. Dis-agree. He'd still be considered an ace if he pitched for the Brewers.. My bad, when I thought of "Ace" I was thinking more along the lines of "elite". I now see it's more "Best pitcher on the team regardless of how good they actually are". |
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Post by Scalious on Apr 6, 2016 11:53:57 GMT -5
Dis-agree. He'd still be considered an ace if he pitched for the Brewers.. My bad, when I thought of "Ace" I was thinking more along the lines of "elite". I now see it's more "Best pitcher on the team regardless of how good they actually are". That is what I mean. He's not kershaw..but no one else is. So unless elite only means Kershaw. Then yes.. You were not implying his status as elite was because of his market. Hence, the brewers who are very small market in the mid-west. |
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Post by NEW YORK on Apr 6, 2016 11:56:32 GMT -5
If we're being objective, we'd agree that Harvey's status as an ace is based mostly on the market where he plays. Harvey's status as an ace is only called into question because he's got to compete with DeGrommit and Syndergaaaaaaard. Harvey would have been the ace on the Sox, Yankees, and Orioles last year. He'd sure as hell be the ace on the Phillies and Brewers. That's a bingo And I don't love Harvey, but he's part of what may be one of the best staffs we ever see |
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Post by b1ake on Apr 6, 2016 11:57:18 GMT -5
My bad, when I thought of "Ace" I was thinking more along the lines of "elite". I now see it's more "Best pitcher on the team regardless of how good they actually are". That is what I mean. He's not kershaw..but no one else is. So unless elite only means Kershaw. Then yes.. You were not implying his status as elite was because of his market. Hence, the brewers who are very small market in the mid-west. I think Elite is top 10 at your position. I think his status of being considered an elite pitcher has more to do with his market than his performance. |
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Post by Scalious on Apr 6, 2016 12:15:55 GMT -5
That is what I mean. He's not kershaw..but no one else is. So unless elite only means Kershaw. Then yes.. You were not implying his status as elite was because of his market. Hence, the brewers who are very small market in the mid-west. I think Elite is top 10 at your position. I think his status of being considered an elite pitcher has more to do with his market than his performance. To me, he is somewhat overrated..but that is because of his pedigree and raw talent. He was a top 10 pick touted with elite stuff. Processed to fast track and dominate the minors and has immediate success in the majors. Which he has continued to sustained while being "young" When an elite talent lives up to most of his hype. Its kinda a defaco assumption that he must be elite. So no. I don't think he's top 10...but rationalizing his overrated nature to simple market size doesn't sit well. IMO |
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lemiwinks
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Post by lemiwinks on Apr 6, 2016 12:20:57 GMT -5
That is what I mean. He's not kershaw..but no one else is. So unless elite only means Kershaw. Then yes.. You were not implying his status as elite was because of his market. Hence, the brewers who are very small market in the mid-west. I think Elite is top 10 at your position. I think his status of being considered an elite pitcher has more to do with his market than his performance. Top 10 is tough...no way he is in there.....well, lets see, off the top of my head in no order
Kershaw Arrieta Greinke MadBum Scherzer deGrom Sale Gray Price Cole Kuechel King Felix Syndergaard Archer
That's 14, and I'm sure ive missed some.
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Post by b1ake on Apr 6, 2016 14:05:14 GMT -5
I think Elite is top 10 at your position. I think his status of being considered an elite pitcher has more to do with his market than his performance. To me, he is somewhat overrated..but that is because of his pedigree and raw talent. He was a top 10 pick touted with elite stuff. Processed to fast track and dominate the minors and has immediate success in the majors. Which he has continued to sustained while being "young" When an elite talent lives up to most of his hype. Its kinda a defaco assumption that he must be elite. So no. I don't think he's top 10...but rationalizing his overrated nature to simple market size doesn't sit well. IMO Well, my judgement of him is personal. And my judgement is correct. |
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bigddude
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Post by bigddude on Apr 6, 2016 14:11:45 GMT -5
To me, he is somewhat overrated..but that is because of his pedigree and raw talent. He was a top 10 pick touted with elite stuff. Processed to fast track and dominate the minors and has immediate success in the majors. Which he has continued to sustained while being "young" When an elite talent lives up to most of his hype. Its kinda a defaco assumption that he must be elite. So no. I don't think he's top 10...but rationalizing his overrated nature to simple market size doesn't sit well. IMO Well, my judgement of him is personal. And my judgement is correct. Cutting on someone due to their opinion is pointless. All one can do, if and when possible, is to present evidence to someone, to give them the chance to change their opinion, based on now having new/more/better info.
It does not happen often, but, as it has happened to me, I know it can.
I'm not taking sides here, as I only mean to comment as I did, and nothing more.
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