Otis B. Driftwood
VIP Member
I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.
Posts: 7,943
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jun 22, 2015 19:00:37 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
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Post by Canuck eh? on Jun 22, 2015 19:14:20 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
What do you expect from a guy nicknamed "Charlie Hustle"?   |
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Post by Zig on Jun 22, 2015 20:45:03 GMT -5
Before this I thought he should be in for what he did as a player.
not sure what I think now. Havent read past the "headlines" of this yet but unless he was betting against his team I dont think my opinion will change.
He was a hell of a player, not many of the ones in the Hof dont have some kind of dirty secret either on or off the field.
But I dont care much either way. He was a star in the show for 20 years...He's had it better than most. Hard to feel sorry for him being as I'm a working stiff lol
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jun 23, 2015 3:14:56 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
Paul Hornung dislikes this post |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jun 23, 2015 3:24:37 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
Another thing sports have injury reports ( NFL's the strictest ) Why So bookkeepers can give an accurate spread If he bet against them or shaved points definitely ban him from baseball forever. End of story. If he was betting on his team to win end his suspension. Like to see a straw poll of how many MLB p[layers have fantasy Football teams That is gambling. The top hitter of all time isn't in the HoF than it ain't really a hall of the best players is it |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jun 23, 2015 3:34:15 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
I'll guarantee you there are a few HoFers pre-Black Sox Scandal that threw games or shaved points and if Mrs Gretzky was betting with Waynes assistant odds are that Wayne was too. Peter King says that the Pro Football HoF doesn't concern itself with transgressions off the field cause it's a hall of the greatest players not the greatest people who played |
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Post by tnerb57 on Jun 23, 2015 4:39:47 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
I'm one of those "baseball fans". I realize he technically violated some "rule" (what do you think the D in 21-D stands for, anyway?), but unless you can show me somewhere where he ever did anything but give 110% on the field as a player, or as a manager, I don't really give a shit about his wagering. How often have you entered an office pool at work? Much lower stakes to be sure, but still gambling on the job. I've said this before, gonna say it again: I have a much greater concern for the players that use steroids to give themselves an unfair advantage on the field than I do someone who bets on games. |
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Post by tnerb57 on Jun 23, 2015 4:44:23 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
Paul Hornung dislikes this post Hornung did the smart thing, though. He said "yeah, ya caught me", sat out a year, and all was forgotten/forgiven. Had Rose followed this model we probably wouldn't even be discussing him in 2015 in regards to the Hall of Fame. He'd be in. |
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Post by tnerb57 on Jun 23, 2015 4:45:42 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
"Tampered with the fabric of the game." Please. Save such remarks for people like A-Roid. |
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Otis B. Driftwood
VIP Member
I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.
Posts: 7,943
Likes: 2,185
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jun 23, 2015 9:47:21 GMT -5
Before this I thought he should be in for what he did as a player. not sure what I think now. Havent read past the "headlines" of this yet but unless he was betting against his team I dont think my opinion will change. He was a hell of a player, not many of the ones in the Hof dont have some kind of dirty secret either on or off the field. But I dont care much either way. He was a star in the show for 20 years...He's had it better than most. Hard to feel sorry for him being as I'm a working stiff lol He knew what the rule was. He chose to ignore it. He lied about it for years. Screw him. |
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Post by Canuck eh? on Jun 23, 2015 9:53:35 GMT -5
Before this I thought he should be in for what he did as a player. not sure what I think now. Havent read past the "headlines" of this yet but unless he was betting against his team I dont think my opinion will change. He was a hell of a player, not many of the ones in the Hof dont have some kind of dirty secret either on or off the field. But I dont care much either way. He was a star in the show for 20 years...He's had it better than most. Hard to feel sorry for him being as I'm a working stiff lol He knew what the rule was. He chose to ignore it. He lied about it for years. Screw him. I'm not very good at reading between the lines Otis. What do you really think? |
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Otis B. Driftwood
VIP Member
I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.
Posts: 7,943
Likes: 2,185
|
Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jun 23, 2015 10:40:26 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
"Tampered with the fabric of the game." Please. Save such remarks for people like A-Roid. I have a special level of contempt for that sniveling piece of shit. He and Ryan Braun both... |
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Post by aka50yearfan on Jun 23, 2015 11:50:12 GMT -5
I use to care but now it does not cross my mind ( apologies to tom Paxton ) about the HOF. Annex a Hall of Records and be done with it. Makes no sense after the steroid thing got outed. The stats count, the games still count but then it doesn't count? No way is the game clean today either. and rose? just don't care anymore. Heck the HOF has guys jammed in there by the old timers committee that are only there because if the committee had a year with no selections they had to disband so they kept putting anyone in there just for the free hotel and meals.
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Post by EWA Beach PGH Fan on Jun 24, 2015 4:23:04 GMT -5
Pete Rose screwed Pete Rose.
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Post by aka50yearfan on Jun 24, 2015 15:25:17 GMT -5
Some perspective on Pete Rose
*He was born before Pearl Harbor and WW2 He is 74 now.
*30 years since he played the game, so unless some sports writer is in his mid 40s, he never saw the guy play live
*Most likely there are HOF guys from the 1910-1919 era who bet on games as players. It was a wild sport then.
*Someday, years from now, he will be in the HOF. That is how time works in these things. See history.
*I still don't friggin care, though I still have his rookie card from a nickel pack I bought back in the day.
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Macho Row
SC Active Member
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Post by Macho Row on Jul 15, 2015 0:08:01 GMT -5
Some perspective on Pete Rose *Someday, years from now, he will be in the HOF. That is how time works in these things. See history. Shoeless Joe Jackson disagrees. And he didn't even do anything. |
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Macho Row
SC Active Member
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Post by Macho Row on Jul 15, 2015 0:09:14 GMT -5
The spectacle made out of Rose tonight was a bit stomach churning in the light of the most recent things that have come out.
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dyhard
FFN
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Post by dyhard on Jul 15, 2015 3:11:20 GMT -5
I mean, he was the greatest Reds player ever and the All-Star Game was in Cincinnati so I'm not surprised.
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Post by EWA Beach PGH Fan on Jul 15, 2015 4:43:06 GMT -5
I mean, he was the greatest Reds player ever and the All-Star Game was in Cincinnati so I'm not surprised. Johnny Bench says, Nope! |
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Macho Row
SC Active Member
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Post by Macho Row on Jul 15, 2015 5:17:26 GMT -5
I mean, he was the greatest Reds player ever and the All-Star Game was in Cincinnati so I'm not surprised. Lance Armstrong was the greatest cyclist of all time but I have a feeling you won't see him celebrated at the Tour de France anytime soon. |
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Otis B. Driftwood
VIP Member
I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.
Posts: 7,943
Likes: 2,185
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jul 15, 2015 6:26:16 GMT -5
I mean, he was the greatest Reds player ever and the All-Star Game was in Cincinnati so I'm not surprised. Lance Armstrong was the greatest cyclist of all time but I have a feeling you won't see him celebrated at the Tour de France anytime soon. I'm pretty certain they won't be having any parades in Austin for him either. |
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dyhard
FFN
Posts: 1,219
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Post by dyhard on Jul 15, 2015 11:15:16 GMT -5
I mean, he was the greatest Reds player ever and the All-Star Game was in Cincinnati so I'm not surprised. Lance Armstrong was the greatest cyclist of all time but I have a feeling you won't see him celebrated at the Tour de France anytime soon. shit that's apples & oranges. 1 guy cheated heavily to win multiple Tour de France titles - the other bet on baseball as a manager w no proof of him altering games |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jul 15, 2015 11:43:30 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
Paul Hornung bet on games as a player. He was suspended for a year cause of it. He is in the HoF in Canton. Get over it. I have a bigger problem with that he lied about it. You hearing me Michael Vick!!! |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jul 15, 2015 11:50:25 GMT -5
I am amazed at the number of "baseball fans" who think this piece of shit should be allowed to be voted on for the Hall of Fame because Rule 21-D "is a dumb rule". - He bet on baseball as a manager
- He lied about it
- He got caught
Now - it's documented he bet on baseball as a player. Screw him. He tampered with the fabric of the game.
I'll guarantee you there are a few HoFers pre-Black Sox Scandal that threw games or shaved points and if Mrs Gretzky was betting with Waynes assistant odds are that Wayne was too. Peter King says that the Pro Football HoF doesn't concern itself with transgressions off the field cause it's a hall of the greatest players not the greatest people who played Didn't realize this was the older thread thought Otis saw Rose at the ASG and started a new one my bad |
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Otis B. Driftwood
VIP Member
I have had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it.
Posts: 7,943
Likes: 2,185
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jul 15, 2015 12:08:34 GMT -5
I'll guarantee you there are a few HoFers pre-Black Sox Scandal that threw games or shaved points and if Mrs Gretzky was betting with Waynes assistant odds are that Wayne was too. Peter King says that the Pro Football HoF doesn't concern itself with transgressions off the field cause it's a hall of the greatest players not the greatest people who played Didn't realize this was the older thread thought Otis saw Rose at the ASG and started a new one my bad Actually... I watched Canada get eliminated in the Gold Cup. That's how much regard I have for the All Star game. |
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Post by Mondo Jay on Jul 15, 2015 17:59:10 GMT -5
I mean, he was the greatest Reds player ever and the All-Star Game was in Cincinnati so I'm not surprised. Bench and Morgan were better IMO. Rose just played forever. He is the all time hits leader but very, very far from the "best hitter" the game has ever seen (as some try to label him). He agreed to his lifetime ban and I firmly believe it shouldn't ever be lifted. Betting on baseball as a player/manager can undermine the very fabric of the game. I don't want to hear any bullshit about steroids or fantasy baseball being anywhere close to as bad for the integrity of the game. Rose's accepted punishment seems to have served as a great deterrent for any other player considering betting on baseball. Even if he were reinstated, it would be highly doubtful the Veteran Committee would vote him into the HOF (as per many interviews and statements by the members). The writers (who have been tough on the eligible roiders) cannot vote for him as his eligibility has elapsed. Fuck Pete Rose. |
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dyhard
FFN
Posts: 1,219
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Post by dyhard on Jul 16, 2015 1:05:24 GMT -5
I mean, he was the greatest Reds player ever and the All-Star Game was in Cincinnati so I'm not surprised. Bench and Morgan were better IMO. Rose just played forever. He is the all time hits leader but very, very far from the "best hitter" the game has ever seen (as some try to label him). He agreed to his lifetime ban and I firmly believe it shouldn't ever be lifted. Betting on baseball as a player/manager can undermine the very fabric of the game. I don't want to hear any bullshit about steroids or fantasy baseball being anywhere close to as bad for the integrity of the game. Rose's accepted punishment seems to have served as a great deterrent for any other player considering betting on baseball. Even if he were reinstated, it would be highly doubtful the Veteran Committee would vote him into the HOF (as per many interviews and statements by the members). The writers (who have been tough on the eligible roiders) cannot vote for him as his eligibility has elapsed. Fuck Pete Rose. yeah I forgot about Johnny Bench but I'm on the fence about Morgan. he was great but I don't know if he was better than Pete Rose, but that's a debate for another time. I think that he should be in the HoF. at the very least, do that. I don't really understand what the ban is. on a related note, can he attend games or no? but allow him in the HoF, he deserves it and the Hall deserves to have the all-time hit leader there regardless if he bet as a manager or not. and there's no proof that he altered games while a manager of the Reds unless there's information the general public is unaware of |
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Macho Row
SC Active Member
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Post by Macho Row on Jul 17, 2015 23:43:03 GMT -5
Bench and Morgan were better IMO. Rose just played forever. He is the all time hits leader but very, very far from the "best hitter" the game has ever seen (as some try to label him). He agreed to his lifetime ban and I firmly believe it shouldn't ever be lifted. Betting on baseball as a player/manager can undermine the very fabric of the game. I don't want to hear any bullshit about steroids or fantasy baseball being anywhere close to as bad for the integrity of the game. Rose's accepted punishment seems to have served as a great deterrent for any other player considering betting on baseball. Even if he were reinstated, it would be highly doubtful the Veteran Committee would vote him into the HOF (as per many interviews and statements by the members). The writers (who have been tough on the eligible roiders) cannot vote for him as his eligibility has elapsed. Fuck Pete Rose. yeah I forgot about Johnny Bench but I'm on the fence about Morgan. he was great but I don't know if he was better than Pete Rose, but that's a debate for another time. I think that he should be in the HoF. at the very least, do that. I don't really understand what the ban is. on a related note, can he attend games or no? but allow him in the HoF, he deserves it and the Hall deserves to have the all-time hit leader there regardless if he bet as a manager or not. and there's no proof that he altered games while a manager of the Reds unless there's information the general public is unaware of The way stuff has slowly leaked out over the past 26 or so years, I think there being more the public doesn't know is a pretty safe assumption. As far as the proof, here's all the proof I need. Rose is a degenerate gambler. People of his ilk can not simply just bet, they want... ney need to win. The fact he bet on in alone is enough for me. Maybe he didn't do anything he wouldn't have normally done managing.... consciously. Try proving or disproving his subconscious. Maybe he holds a reliever out of a game to save him for tomorrow knowing in the back of his mind he was going to play heavier the next night. What Rose did is much worse than any PED user. |
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Post by aka50yearfan on Jul 18, 2015 9:17:38 GMT -5
Some perspective on Pete Rose *Someday, years from now, he will be in the HOF. That is how time works in these things. See history. Shoeless Joe Jackson disagrees. And he didn't even do anything. Shoeless Joe Jackson was thrown out of the game as a player. Mid career. Big difference. Add in he average 4 home runs a year, ave. 60 RBIs a year and it is his BA of .356 that would have been his calling card to the HOF. Not a first time ballot guy given the history of the beginning of the HOF and how it worked. Look, he was the fall guy for a game that was crooked at the time. Players just did not make the money then and they got it where they could. You could argue he would have played five more years and done great. And who knows, he may get in someday too. |
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Macho Row
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Post by Macho Row on Jul 19, 2015 0:36:07 GMT -5
Shoeless Joe Jackson disagrees. And he didn't even do anything. Shoeless Joe Jackson was thrown out of the game as a player. Mid career. Big difference. Add in he average 4 home runs a year, ave. 60 RBIs a year and it is his BA of .356 that would have been his calling card to the HOF. Not a first time ballot guy given the history of the beginning of the HOF and how it worked. Look, he was the fall guy for a game that was crooked at the time. Players just did not make the money then and they got it where they could. You could argue he would have played five more years and done great. And who knows, he may get in someday too. I think you may be a bit misguided on your outlook on Jackson. His numbers were very comparable to Ty Cobb and had he not been thrown out in his prime may have even surpased those. Ty Cobb even considered Jackson the better hitter. 4 a year back then was about average, Cobb won the HR crown with 9 one year. It having been so long ago on top of all the bad publicity that went along with getting banned really has changed peoples impression of him. He was a rockstar back then and had he not been thrown out I have no doubt he would have been in the inaugural class along with Cobb, Ruth, Wagner, Matthewson and Johnson. In fact I'll go one better and say his vote % would have even been higher than Ruths. |
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