tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 5, 2015 13:45:22 GMT -5
I'll begin with starting pitchers.
"Momentum is tomorrow's starting pitcher"- Earl Weaver
He should know. He had four 20 game winners on his staff in 1971 but didn't even win the series. Clemente's Pirates won a classic.
These groups will include only players that were active between 1965 and 2014. No active current players appear. I was eight years old in 1965 and started to follow baseball. What does that mean? It means I am an old SOB. Also, I have seen at least a game or two either live or on TV from all the players appearing here.
Am I right in my selections? There is no right. These are opinions. If anyone even gives a rat's ass about it (either of you, LOL). Feel free to chime in.
I will review starting pitchers now. I do not want to deluge anybody with too much at once. I was going to go with a top 25, but I can't seem to pare it to fewer than 28. Here are numbers 21-28. I will explore numbers 16-21 next. When? I don't know. I don't want this to be a "job". Then I'll copy and paste numbers 1-27 together in one post. Why? To build suspense (haha). I will wind up with five installments of SPs, then go on to RPs, then C, then 1B, etc, etc. Unless I get sick of it. But with the temperature at 4 degrees and a foot and a half of snow on the ground, well, I will probably make it.
I'll post regular season stats and World Series stats. Not Division Series or Championship Series. Why? I don't know, but I guess I do not want to short some of the older players here when there were none of these. And, because as stated, I am old.
Here we go...Bold = Hall of Famer
28) Jack Morris (career regular season 254-186, 3.90 ERA, 3824 IP, 2478K, 1.30 WHIP career WS 4-2, 2.96 ERA , 52IP, 40K, 1.20 WHIP) Dude would have probably been a lock for the HOF without that unsightly ERA. Great competitor. Abrasive mother. Will never forget his 10 inning masterpiece in 1991 Series. Even though it was for the Twins and not my home team.
27) Fernando Valenzuela (career regular season 173-153, 3.54 ERA, 2930 IP, 2074K , 1.32 WHIP career WS 1-0, 4.00 ERA, 9 IP, 6K, 1.78 WHIP) He was such a phenomenon in the early 1980's, leading the Dodgers to the championship in his first full season in 1981, along with a Cy Young award. Major contributor through the late 1980's.
26) Vida Blue (career regular season 209-161, 3.27 ERA, 3343 IP, 2175K, 1.23 WHIP, career WS 0-3, 4.05 ERA, 33 IP, 22K, 1.29 WHIP) Another overnight sensation. Won Cy Young award in first full season (24-8, 1.82 ERA, 301K). One of three 20 win seasons. Cocaine use sullies his rep somewhat.
25) Mickey Lolich (career regular season 217-191, 3.44 ERA, 3638 IP, 2832K, 1.23 WHIP career WS 3-0 1.67 ERA, 27 IP, 21K, 0.98 WHIP) Steady performer who was otherworldly in 1968 Series, (3 CG wins, the last vs Bob Gibson, also hit only career HR in series). Lost a tight duel for Cy in 1971 with Vida Blue. Mick (25-14, 2.92 ungodly 376 IP, 308K) followed with 22-14, 2.50 in 1972 and then went downhill.
24) Roy Halladay (career regular season 203-105, 3.38 ERA, 2749 IP, 2117K, 1.18 WHIP career WS 1-1, 4.15 ERA, 13 IP, 12K, 1.23 WHIP) Put together three 20 win seasons and two 19 win seasons. I am not including NLCS or NLDS, but he threw a no-hitter vs. the Reds in 2010 NLDS.
23) Mike Mussina (career regular season 270-153, 3.68 ERA, 3562 IP, 2813K, 1.19 WHIP career WS 1-1, 3.00 ERA, 18 IP, 23K, 1.28 WHIP) Mister consistency with the Orioles for ten years, then starred with the Yankees. Remarkably had seven years of 17 or more wins, then retired in 2008 with a career high 20-8. Talk about going out on top...
22) Don Sutton (career regular season 324-256, 3.26 ERA, 5282 IP, 3574K, 1.14 WHIP career WS 2-3, 5.26 ERA, 51 IP, 33K, 1.25 WHIP) A clone of Mike Mussina (or vice-versa). One season over 20 wins (1976, 21-10) but seven others of 17 or more. What does 22 years of sustained consistent quality get you? The Hall of Fame.
Next up, 16-21.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 5, 2015 14:22:17 GMT -5
I'll begin with starting pitchers. "Momentum is tomorrow's starting pitcher"- Earl Weaver He should know. He had four 20 game winners on his staff in 1971 but didn't even win the series. Clemente's Pirates won a classic. These groups will include only players that were active between 1965 and 2014. No active current players appear. I was eight years old in 1965 and started to follow baseball. What does that mean? It means I am an old SOB. Also, I have seen at least a game or two either live or on TV from all the players appearing here. Am I right in my selections? There is no right. These are opinions. If anyone even gives a rat's ass about it (either of you, LOL). Feel free to chime in. I will review starting pitchers now. I do not want to deluge anybody with too much at once. I was going to go with a top 25, but I can't seem to pare it to fewer than 27. Here are numbers 21-27. I will explore numbers 16-20 next. When? I don't know. I don't want this to be a "job". Then I'll copy and paste numbers 1-27 together in one post. Why? To build suspense (haha). I will wind up with five installments of SPs, then go on to RPs, then C, then 1B, etc, etc. Unless I get sick of it. But with the temperature at 4 degrees and a foot and a half of snow on the ground, well, I will probably make it. I'll post regular season stats and World Series stats. Not Division Series or Championship Series. Why? I don't know, but I guess I do not want to short some of the older players here when there were none of these. And, because as stated, I am old. Here we go... 27) Jack Morris (career regular season 254-186, 3.90 ERA, 3824 IP, 2478K, 1.30 WHIP career WS 4-2, 2.96 ERA , 52IP, 40K, 1.20 WHIP) Dude would have probably been a lock for the HOF without that unsightly ERA. Great competitor. Abrasive mother. Will never forget his 10 inning masterpiece in 1991 Series. Even though it was for the Twins and not my home team. 26) Fernando Valenzuela ( career regular season 173-153, 3.54 ERA, 2930 IP, 2074K , 1.32 WHIP career WS 1-0, 4.00 ERA, 9 IP, 6K, 1.78 WHIP) He was such a phenomenon in the early 1980's, leading the Dodgers to the championship in his first full season in 1981, along with a Cy Young award. Major contributor through the late 1980's. 25) Vida Blue ( career regular season 209-161, 3.27 ERA, 3343 IP, 2175K, 1.23 WHIP, career WS 0-3, 4.05 ERA, 33 IP, 22K, 1.29 WHIP) Another overnight sensation. Won Cy Young award in first full season (24-8, 1.82 ERA, 301K). One of three 20 win seasons. Cocaine use sullies his rep somewhat. 24) Mickey Lolich ( career regular season 217-191, 3.44 ERA, 3638 IP, 2832K, 1.23 WHIP career WS 3-0 1.67 ERA, 27 IP, 21K, 0.98 WHIP) Steady performer who was otherworldly in 1968 Series, (3 CG wins, the last vs Bob Gibson, also hit only career HR in series). Lost a tight duel for Cy in 1971 with Vida Blue. Mick (25-14, 2.92 ungodly 376 IP, 308K) followed with 22-14, 2.50 in 1972 and then went downhill. 23) Roy Halladay ( career regular season 203-105, 3.38 ERA, 2749 IP, 2117K, 1.18 WHIP career WS 1-1, 4.15 ERA, 13 IP, 12K, 1.23 WHIP) Put together three 20 win seasons and two 19 win seasons. I am not including NLCS or NLDS, but he threw a no-hitter vs. the Reds in 2010 NLDS. 22) Mike Mussina ( career regular season 270-153, 3.68 ERA, 3562 IP, 2813K, 1.19 WHIP career WS 1-1, 3.00 ERA, 18 IP, 23K, 1.28 WHIP) Mister consistency with the Orioles for ten years, then starred with the Yankees. Remarkably had seven years of 17 or more wins, then retired in 2008 with a career high 20-8. Talk about going out on top... 21) Don Sutton ( career regular season 324-256, 3.26 ERA, 5282 IP, 3574K, 1.14 WHIP career WS 2-3, 5.26 ERA, 51 IP, 33K, 1.25 WHIP) A clone of Mike Mussina (or vice-versa). One season over 20 wins (1976, 21-10) but seven others of 17 or more. What does 22 years of sustained consistent quality get you? The Hall of Fame. Next up, 16-20. Holy shit if this list keeps up like this Already I'd take Halladay over Mussina. Halladay played for a shitty team most of his career in a tough division and seeing as you say Sutton is what Mussina was cloned from I guess I'd put him ahead of him too |
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 5, 2015 14:46:37 GMT -5
I'll begin with starting pitchers. "Momentum is tomorrow's starting pitcher"- Earl Weaver He should know. He had four 20 game winners on his staff in 1971 but didn't even win the series. Clemente's Pirates won a classic. These groups will include only players that were active between 1965 and 2014. No active current players appear. I was eight years old in 1965 and started to follow baseball. What does that mean? It means I am an old SOB. Also, I have seen at least a game or two either live or on TV from all the players appearing here. Am I right in my selections? There is no right. These are opinions. If anyone even gives a rat's ass about it (either of you, LOL). Feel free to chime in. I will review starting pitchers now. I do not want to deluge anybody with too much at once. I was going to go with a top 25, but I can't seem to pare it to fewer than 27. Here are numbers 21-27. I will explore numbers 16-20 next. When? I don't know. I don't want this to be a "job". Then I'll copy and paste numbers 1-27 together in one post. Why? To build suspense (haha). I will wind up with five installments of SPs, then go on to RPs, then C, then 1B, etc, etc. Unless I get sick of it. But with the temperature at 4 degrees and a foot and a half of snow on the ground, well, I will probably make it. I'll post regular season stats and World Series stats. Not Division Series or Championship Series. Why? I don't know, but I guess I do not want to short some of the older players here when there were none of these. And, because as stated, I am old. Here we go... 27) Jack Morris (career regular season 254-186, 3.90 ERA, 3824 IP, 2478K, 1.30 WHIP career WS 4-2, 2.96 ERA , 52IP, 40K, 1.20 WHIP) Dude would have probably been a lock for the HOF without that unsightly ERA. Great competitor. Abrasive mother. Will never forget his 10 inning masterpiece in 1991 Series. Even though it was for the Twins and not my home team. 26) Fernando Valenzuela ( career regular season 173-153, 3.54 ERA, 2930 IP, 2074K , 1.32 WHIP career WS 1-0, 4.00 ERA, 9 IP, 6K, 1.78 WHIP) He was such a phenomenon in the early 1980's, leading the Dodgers to the championship in his first full season in 1981, along with a Cy Young award. Major contributor through the late 1980's. 25) Vida Blue ( career regular season 209-161, 3.27 ERA, 3343 IP, 2175K, 1.23 WHIP, career WS 0-3, 4.05 ERA, 33 IP, 22K, 1.29 WHIP) Another overnight sensation. Won Cy Young award in first full season (24-8, 1.82 ERA, 301K). One of three 20 win seasons. Cocaine use sullies his rep somewhat. 24) Mickey Lolich ( career regular season 217-191, 3.44 ERA, 3638 IP, 2832K, 1.23 WHIP career WS 3-0 1.67 ERA, 27 IP, 21K, 0.98 WHIP) Steady performer who was otherworldly in 1968 Series, (3 CG wins, the last vs Bob Gibson, also hit only career HR in series). Lost a tight duel for Cy in 1971 with Vida Blue. Mick (25-14, 2.92 ungodly 376 IP, 308K) followed with 22-14, 2.50 in 1972 and then went downhill. 23) Roy Halladay ( career regular season 203-105, 3.38 ERA, 2749 IP, 2117K, 1.18 WHIP career WS 1-1, 4.15 ERA, 13 IP, 12K, 1.23 WHIP) Put together three 20 win seasons and two 19 win seasons. I am not including NLCS or NLDS, but he threw a no-hitter vs. the Reds in 2010 NLDS. 22) Mike Mussina ( career regular season 270-153, 3.68 ERA, 3562 IP, 2813K, 1.19 WHIP career WS 1-1, 3.00 ERA, 18 IP, 23K, 1.28 WHIP) Mister consistency with the Orioles for ten years, then starred with the Yankees. Remarkably had seven years of 17 or more wins, then retired in 2008 with a career high 20-8. Talk about going out on top... 21) Don Sutton ( career regular season 324-256, 3.26 ERA, 5282 IP, 3574K, 1.14 WHIP career WS 2-3, 5.26 ERA, 51 IP, 33K, 1.25 WHIP) A clone of Mike Mussina (or vice-versa). One season over 20 wins (1976, 21-10) but seven others of 17 or more. What does 22 years of sustained consistent quality get you? The Hall of Fame. Next up, 16-20. Holy shit if this list keeps up like this Already I'd take Halladay over Mussina. Halladay played for a shitty team most of his career in a tough division and seeing as you say Sutton is what Mussina was cloned from I guess I'd put him ahead of him too Yes, your points are good. As I said, am I right? There is really no right. The numbers are a huge part (this is baseball, of course) but a lot of more subjective things cannot help but get intertwined for any and all readers (including me, the writer). Memories stick to folks like mortar does to bricks. |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 5, 2015 14:54:32 GMT -5
Holy shit if this list keeps up like this Already I'd take Halladay over Mussina. Halladay played for a shitty team most of his career in a tough division and seeing as you say Sutton is what Mussina was cloned from I guess I'd put him ahead of him too Yes, your points are good. As I said, am I right? There is really no right. The numbers are a huge part (this is baseball, of course) but a lot of more subjective things cannot help but get intertwined for any and all readers (including me, the writer). Memories stick to folks like mortar does to bricks. I look at it this way at one time Doc was the best pitcher in baseball (and for a few seasons) that is something that Mussina nor Sutton could say |
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 5, 2015 15:12:10 GMT -5
Yes, your points are good. As I said, am I right? There is really no right. The numbers are a huge part (this is baseball, of course) but a lot of more subjective things cannot help but get intertwined for any and all readers (including me, the writer). Memories stick to folks like mortar does to bricks. I look at it this way at one time Doc was the best pitcher in baseball (and for a few seasons) that is something that Mussina nor Sutton could say That is a fact Swampy. Halladay was one hell of a pitcher. Too bad he got hurt so bad. He might have been in the top ten on this list. I am also sure that I will have left some outstanding players off this list all together. Be a critical reader if you will, and point these out when this category is completed. |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 5, 2015 15:25:18 GMT -5
I look at it this way at one time Doc was the best pitcher in baseball (and for a few seasons) that is something that Mussina nor Sutton could say That is a fact Swampy. Halladay was one hell of a pitcher. Too bad he got hurt so bad. He might have been in the top ten on this list. I am also sure that I will have left some outstanding players off this list all together. Be a critical reader if you will, and point these out when this category is completed. Ok .......... kicks rock and feels scolded <flips quarter to 50> |
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 7, 2015 10:06:08 GMT -5
Well, upon further review...I found that I left a guy out who has simply got to be on the list. So now there are 28 starting pitchers listed. Hard to find enough time. My wife sleeps late. Screwing around on here is the thing I do most while she sleeps. I guess a lot of guys would do more questionable things. Cheat. Look at porn. Get trashed. I screw around on here.
Not bad considering we are speaking about 50 years of pitchers.
I will not reveal who I originally left out. I am sure that all of these players will be reading this and list, and he would be furious. (LOL)
So, I updated the original post, now we have pitchers 16-21.
21) Curt Schilling Career regular season 216-146, 3.46 ERA, 3261 IP, 3116 K, 1.13 WHIP. career WS (4-1, 2.06 ERA, 48 IP, 43K, 0.90 WHIP) Curt endured a rocky start before exploding into prominence with Arizona and Boston. Especially post season. The "Bloody Sock" game in the Red Sox miraculous comeback ALCS of 2004 was quite a story too.
20) Gaylord Perry Career regular season 314-265, 3.11 ERA, 5350 IP, 3534 K, 1.18 WHIP (no World Series) Gaylord put up these sterling numbers with 9 teams. The vagabond of pitchers, he might have ranked higher if not for liberal use of Vaseline and other slippery substances. If you aint cheating, you aint trying. LOL.
19) Fergie Jenkins Career regular season 284-226, 3.34 ERA, 4500 IP, 3192 K, 1.14 WHIP (no World Series) Pitching the bulk of his career out of Wrigley, the ERA and WHIP become even more impressive. Put up numerous 20 win seasons in both Chicago and Texas.
18) Luis Tiant Career regular season 229-172, 3.30 ERA, 3486 IP, 2410 K, 1.20 WHIP career WS (2-0, 3.62 ERA, 25 IP, 12K, 1.32 WHIP) The ranking may be a bit high, but I probably bias things somewhat when I saw a lot of a pitcher. Well, I saw a lot of Luis and liked most all of what I saw.
17) Don Drysdale Career regular season 209-166, 2.95 ERA, 3432 IP, 2486 K, 1.15 WHIP career WS (3-3, 2.95 ERA, 40 IP, 36 K, 1.21 WHIP) Drysdale is a polarizing figure. His W-L is mediocre, but he pitched for Dodgers teams that were very offensively challenged (except the '62 edition). At the same time the ERA is outstanding, but again a caveat...he pitched in a pitcher's park beginning in 1962 (LA Coliseum from 1958-61 was no such thing though...).For years he held the record for consecutive scoreless innings pitched. He was a prototypical power pitcher, and I like those. The era also produced historically low run production. He did retire to pursue acting at age 33 though, and had he continued, the wins would be higher. Bill James devotes an entire chapter to "Big D" in his excellent book about the Hall of Fame (The Politics of Glory, 1994). Good reading.
16) Bert Blyleven Career regular season 287-250, 3.31 ERA, 4970 IP, 3701 K, 1.20 WHIP career WS (2-1, 2.35 ERA, 23 IP, 16 K, 1.15 WHIP) Took a while to get in the Hall. Why, I don't know. The curveball was legendary and the guy put in a good 22 years. Only won 20 once, but every other stat is worthy.
Next, numbers 11-15.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 9, 2015 3:57:04 GMT -5
Holy shit if this list keeps up like this Already I'd take Halladay over Mussina. Halladay played for a shitty team most of his career in a tough division and seeing as you say Sutton is what Mussina was cloned from I guess I'd put him ahead of him too Yes, your points are good. As I said, am I right? There is really no right. The numbers are a huge part (this is baseball, of course) but a lot of more subjective things cannot help but get intertwined for any and all readers (including me, the writer). Memories stick to folks like mortar does to bricks. Just looked at my post and it looks like I'm hating, more like impressed with the info and work put into it. Debate the order later |
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 9, 2015 8:10:47 GMT -5
Yes, your points are good. As I said, am I right? There is really no right. The numbers are a huge part (this is baseball, of course) but a lot of more subjective things cannot help but get intertwined for any and all readers (including me, the writer). Memories stick to folks like mortar does to bricks. Just looked at my post and it looks like I'm hating, more like impressed with the info and work put into it. Debate the order later Excellent! Swampy, please do a "quick" re-order when it is done. I am interested to see your opinion. Thanks much! |
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Post by bigddude on Feb 10, 2015 10:28:48 GMT -5
How I missed this these last few days.....
VERY well done here Towner. I look forward to checking out the entire list.
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tigertowner 68
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Hangin' in and wife improving
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 12, 2015 12:18:12 GMT -5
Damn, I just got my wife home from knee surgery yesterday after spending Tuesday night at the hospital. She is resting uneasily but hopefully this fifth time will get it done. I went to post part three of the starting pitcher list and damn! My notes are nowhere to be found. If the local authorities are not successful in uncoverring this mystery by tomorrow morning, I may have to get the Feds involved...  |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 12, 2015 12:39:52 GMT -5
Damn, I just got my wife home from knee surgery yesterday after spending Tuesday night at the hospital. She is resting uneasily but hopefully this fifth time will get it done. I went to post part three of the starting pitcher list and damn! My notes are nowhere to be found. If the local authorities are not successful in uncovering this mystery by tomorrow morning, I may have to get the Feds involved... So I take it she won't be ready for her turn in the rotation ?!? |
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 12, 2015 13:43:31 GMT -5
Damn, I just got my wife home from knee surgery yesterday after spending Tuesday night at the hospital. She is resting uneasily but hopefully this fifth time will get it done. I went to post part three of the starting pitcher list and damn! My notes are nowhere to be found. If the local authorities are not successful in uncovering this mystery by tomorrow morning, I may have to get the Feds involved... So I take it she won't be ready for her turn in the rotation ?!? I would say that is an accurate evaluation Swampy. |
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