tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 9:05:50 GMT -5
If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle. LOL. It's all about the 'ships. In this era, FG kicking is 88% and up. Can't blame Tom for playing the percentages. Not that he'd have any choice. Bill Belichick is not a republican or a democrat. He is the dictator. He runs it all. And the Giants earned them both. Eli has a different gear in the post-season. Don't know how, or why. But he does.OK, but when you are the heavy favorite in two superbowls and you fall on your face, it has to count for something. Brady was outstanding in this last one, but I still lean to Bart Starr. You can only be judged by the era you played in and no one dominated his era as far as winning championships than Starr. Honestly, the stats don't mean squat. apples and oranges. yards, tds, percentage, all that stuff from completely different eras has no value that I can see. Note: brady is far from being done though. The book on him is not closed and there really is not much competition in the AFC right now for getting to a superbowl and certainly the division the Pats are in has been a huge help for home field advantage come playoff time. He is great when all is right, but he is very very average or less when rushed or pressured or hit much. There are QBs who handle that kind of stuff a lot better than he does. No QB likes to be hit, but too often you get the sense that Brady even hates the thought of being hit. Those two interceptions he threw in that superbowl were very indicative and winning seems to make people forget those. He is way way way above Peyton, that is not a question anymore. Didn't mean to "like" my own post...I liked your post 50, not mine.I also agree with the part of your quote that I have in bold. I think Aaron Rodgers is dangerous when under pressure. He is calmer and his moves are a lot better.
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brony
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Post by brony on Feb 15, 2015 9:06:23 GMT -5
Super Bowl XXXVI won on a 48-yard field goal. Super Bowl XXXVIII won on a 41-yard field goal. Those weren't chip shots. I'd be more willing to credit the quarterback if those were 23 yarders. I mean, what's the difference between Tom Brady's XXXVI win on a 48-yard field goal vs Jim Kelly's XXV loss on a 47-yard field goal (aka wide right)? The difference sure as hell ain't the play of the quarterback.
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Otis B. Driftwood
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Feb 15, 2015 10:52:06 GMT -5
Im glad that Automatic Otto is a part of this dialogue. The man led his team to 10 consecutive championship games and won his share. Doesn't matter what era one talks about - that is one of the most impressive feats in the history of the NFofL.
Was he the best QB all time? No.
Is he in the Top 5?
In my book - yes.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 15, 2015 16:04:47 GMT -5
OK, but when you are the heavy favorite in two superbowls and you fall on your face, it has to count for something. Brady was outstanding in this last one, but I still lean to Bart Starr. You can only be judged by the era you played in and no one dominated his era as far as winning championships than Starr. Honestly, the stats don't mean squat. apples and oranges. yards, tds, percentage, all that stuff from completely different eras has no value that I can see. Note: brady is far from being done though. The book on him is not closed and there really is not much competition in the AFC right now for getting to a superbowl and certainly the division the Pats are in has been a huge help for home field advantage come playoff time. He is great when all is right, but he is very very average or less when rushed or pressured or hit much. There are QBs who handle that kind of stuff a lot better than he does. No QB likes to be hit, but too often you get the sense that Brady even hates the thought of being hit. Those two interceptions he threw in that superbowl were very indicative and winning seems to make people forget those. He is way way way above Peyton, that is not a question anymore. Didn't mean to "like" my own post...I liked your post 50, not mine.I also agree with the part of your quote that I have in bold. I think Aaron Rodgers is dangerous when under pressure. He is calmer and his moves are a lot better. You can like your own post?!? Oh please don't find this site DJ Okay to the posts Rodgers has WR's that are constantly a mismatch and that helps a whole bunch when you are getting pressure I'll put money on that,The other way to relieve pressure is to get that ball out of the QB's hands fast (which is essentially how the Pats moved the ball) If Rodgers WR's were Dwayne Bowe and Andre Roberts and his safety valve was Trent Richardson Aaron would look like a deer in the headlights too
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 15, 2015 16:13:33 GMT -5
Im glad that Automatic Otto is a part of this dialogue. The man led his team to 10 consecutive championship games and won his share. Doesn't matter what era one talks about - that is one of the most impressive feats in the history of the NFofL. Was he the best QB all time? No. Is he in the Top 5? In my book - yes. Why is he not best? and whom do you think is? Name your top 5 like to see it Actually this might be a better thread topic
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 16:21:27 GMT -5
Didn't mean to "like" my own post...I liked your post 50, not mine.I also agree with the part of your quote that I have in bold. I think Aaron Rodgers is dangerous when under pressure. He is calmer and his moves are a lot better. You can like your own post?!? Oh please don't find this site DJ Okay to the posts Rodgers has WR's that are constantly a mismatch and that helps a whole bunch when you are getting pressure I'll put money on that,The other way to relieve pressure is to get that ball out of the QB's hands fast (which is essentially how the Pats moved the ball) If Rodgers WR's were Dwayne Bowe and Andre Roberts and his safety valve was Trent Richardson Aaron would look like a deer in the headlights too True statement about Rodgers WRs but the guy is pretty nimble at sidestepping the rush, and he gets rid of the ball pretty damn quick. The fastest release I ever saw is Dan Marino.
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 16:28:35 GMT -5
Im glad that Automatic Otto is a part of this dialogue. The man led his team to 10 consecutive championship games and won his share. Doesn't matter what era one talks about - that is one of the most impressive feats in the history of the NFofL. Was he the best QB all time? No. Is he in the Top 5? In my book - yes. Why is he not best? and whom do you think is? Name your top 5 like to see it Actually this might be a better thread topic That would be an even better thread topic. Joe Namath says that Brady is the best of all time. Oh, shit. He was drunk and was begging Gisele Bundchen for a kiss when Tom sneaked up on them. Then he said Brady was the best of all time as he stumbled toward the door...
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Otis B. Driftwood
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Feb 15, 2015 16:58:50 GMT -5
Im glad that Automatic Otto is a part of this dialogue. The man led his team to 10 consecutive championship games and won his share. Doesn't matter what era one talks about - that is one of the most impressive feats in the history of the NFofL. Was he the best QB all time? No. Is he in the Top 5? In my book - yes. Why is he not best? and whom do you think is? Name your top 5 like to see it Actually this might be a better thread topic OK. 1 - Joe Montana. The man ripped my heart out in the 1982 championship game. It took a long long time for me to acknowledge his greatness. But his record speaks for itself. "Look - it's John Candy". Had some of those early Niners players not lost their compass and mandated Walsh replacing them, I think he would have had another one or two under his belt. 2 - Tom Brady. Sustained excellence with a variety of weapons. It's tough for me not to put him at the top and I could change my mind tomorrow. He showed what he can do with an all time great (Randy Moss) and what he can do with friggin' Deion Branch. He also had Belichick and his defenses. That's where I give Joe Cool an extremely slight edge. 3 - Johnny Unitas. Until Joe - he was my all time best. Until Tom - he was my second all time best. Plain and simple... Johnny Unitas defined for me as a kid what a NFL QB was supposed to look like. And - it took the modern day version of offenses for QB's to break his record of a touchdown pass in 47 consecutive games. And - he has the rings to back it up. 4 - Otto Graham. In an era when a QB got the holy hell beat out of him and against defenses stacked because they knew what the Browns were going to do and being a team from an outsider league... 10 Championship games... 7 championships... and an unquestioned leader of men. Good enough for me. 5 - Peyton Manning. He gets the vote over Marino for me because of a ring. I could be a homer and put Roger up there... or Bradshaw... or Starr... but you can't deny his skill. The man will own every record there is for a QB. But championships matter too - especially for a QB. That's my list. I'll stick to it. I will say this... if Brady wins one more then it would be really really hard not to look at him as the best.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 15, 2015 17:16:41 GMT -5
1) Otto Graham 10 seasons 10 championship games 7 titles 2) Bart Starr 16 seasons 6 championship games 5 titles 3) Joe Montana 14 seasons 4 championship games 4 titles 4) Tom Brady 14 seasons 6 championship games 4 titles 5) Sid Luckman 12 seasons 5 championship games 4 titles
2-4 are quite interchangeable but my reasoning was like this Graham a title game every season 7 Titles all he did was win and that;s what it's all about Starr 9-1 in the Playoffs is easily the best record Took Montana over Brady cause of the toughness of the competition in their conferences in their eras Took Luckman but it probably would have been Staubach if he didn't spend his prime 5 years in the military
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Post by Zig on Feb 15, 2015 17:18:32 GMT -5
Pats were only favored by 3 in the 2nd SB loss to the Giants. And not to sound like a huge Brady homer but Brady was the main reason they even got there that year. That and the AFC was crap. Remember they('11 Pats) had the worst defense of all time until week 17 when the Packers passed them for that "honor". A healthy Gronk that game is probably quite different. But like the first SB loss Brady did give his team the late lead. also another way Brady and Joe are similar, the NY Giants were their kriptonite lol. Also note I have yet to vote in this, I'm not saying Brady is the GOAT. I really don't know who is. I never bought in to winning SBs as the only or even main factor either. The best team wins the SB, not the best QB. Brady has the rings but he'd also have to be considered one of the best of this era even if only had 1 or 2. He's got plenty of regular season records, MVPs etc etc. It's not like he's Trent Dilfer but with 4 rings... All I know is I'm glad to have him QBing my team. He's not done yet, hopefully before he's done it'll be hard to say anyone else but him is the GOAT Thanks for your time
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 15, 2015 17:42:06 GMT -5
You can like your own post?!? Oh please don't find this site DJ Okay to the posts Rodgers has WR's that are constantly a mismatch and that helps a whole bunch when you are getting pressure I'll put money on that,The other way to relieve pressure is to get that ball out of the QB's hands fast (which is essentially how the Pats moved the ball) If Rodgers WR's were Dwayne Bowe and Andre Roberts and his safety valve was Trent Richardson Aaron would look like a deer in the headlights too True statement about Rodgers WRs but the guy is pretty nimble at sidestepping the rush, and he gets rid of the ball pretty damn quick. The fastest release I ever saw is Dan Marino. Him or Dan Fouts
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 15, 2015 17:57:18 GMT -5
Pats were only favored by 3 in the 2nd SB loss to the Giants. And not to sound like a huge Brady homer but Brady was the main reason they even got there that year. That and the AFC was crap. Remember they('11 Pats) had the worst defense of all time until week 17 when the Packers passed them for that "honor". A healthy Gronk that game is probably quite different. But like the first SB loss Brady did give his team the late lead. also another way Brady and Joe are similar, the NY Giants were their kriptonite lol. Also note I have yet to vote in this, I'm not saying Brady is the GOAT. I really don't know who is. I never bought in to winning SBs as the only or even main factor either. The best team wins the SB, not the best QB. Brady has the rings but he'd also have to be considered one of the best of this era even if only had 1 or 2. He's got plenty of regular season records, MVPs etc etc. It's not like he's Trent Dilfer but with 4 rings... All I know is I'm glad to have him QBing my team. He's not done yet, hopefully before he's done it'll be hard to say anyone else but him is the GOAT Thanks for your time Nobody really does that's what makes the topic interesting
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 15, 2015 18:11:23 GMT -5
Pats were only favored by 3 in the 2nd SB loss to the Giants. And not to sound like a huge Brady homer but Brady was the main reason they even got there that year. That and the AFC was crap. Remember they('11 Pats) had the worst defense of all time until week 17 when the Packers passed them for that "honor". A healthy Gronk that game is probably quite different. But like the first SB loss Brady did give his team the late lead. also another way Brady and Joe are similar, the NY Giants were their kriptonite lol. Also note I have yet to vote in this, I'm not saying Brady is the GOAT. I really don't know who is. I never bought in to winning SBs as the only or even main factor either. The best team wins the SB, not the best QB. Brady has the rings but he'd also have to be considered one of the best of this era even if only had 1 or 2. He's got plenty of regular season records, MVPs etc etc. It's not like he's Trent Dilfer but with 4 rings... All I know is I'm glad to have him QBing my team. He's not done yet, hopefully before he's done it'll be hard to say anyone else but him is the GOAT Thanks for your time That's a gimme
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Otis B. Driftwood
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Feb 15, 2015 18:19:46 GMT -5
Pats were only favored by 3 in the 2nd SB loss to the Giants. And not to sound like a huge Brady homer but Brady was the main reason they even got there that year. That and the AFC was crap. Remember they('11 Pats) had the worst defense of all time until week 17 when the Packers passed them for that "honor". A healthy Gronk that game is probably quite different. But like the first SB loss Brady did give his team the late lead. also another way Brady and Joe are similar, the NY Giants were their kriptonite lol. Also note I have yet to vote in this, I'm not saying Brady is the GOAT. I really don't know who is. I never bought in to winning SBs as the only or even main factor either. The best team wins the SB, not the best QB. Brady has the rings but he'd also have to be considered one of the best of this era even if only had 1 or 2. He's got plenty of regular season records, MVPs etc etc. It's not like he's Trent Dilfer but with 4 rings... All I know is I'm glad to have him QBing my team. He's not done yet, hopefully before he's done it'll be hard to say anyone else but him is the GOAT Thanks for your time That's the thing about Brady. He's absolutely not done. Which is why I can't etch his name into the #2 slot. He's still writing his history. And as a local scribe once wrote about a certain team in the 90's who people were anointing as the GOAT... gotta let history breathe.
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Post by Zig on Feb 15, 2015 18:40:54 GMT -5
I'll also add that as highly as I think of Bill the HC, Bill the GM probably cost the team 1 or 2 more rings. So many questionable moves and just poor draft choices...8 years to get the D back up to par. Hate to sound greedy but I really feel they've actually under achieved during this run. But the last few drafts have been much better, quite a few very good young players, youngest team to ever win a SB. It's hard to win SBs but I think they have while longer as one of the top contenders.
1 more for a little icing on the cake would be great lol
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Post by Center Ice on Feb 15, 2015 18:43:23 GMT -5
I MISS SUNDAY FOOTBALL!!!!!
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brony
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Post by brony on Feb 15, 2015 21:20:37 GMT -5
Pats were only favored by 3 in the 2nd SB loss to the Giants. And not to sound like a huge Brady homer but Brady was the main reason they even got there that year. That and the AFC was crap. Remember they('11 Pats) had the worst defense of all time until week 17 when the Packers passed them for that "honor". A healthy Gronk that game is probably quite different. But like the first SB loss Brady did give his team the late lead. also another way Brady and Joe are similar, the NY Giants were their kriptonite lol. Also note I have yet to vote in this, I'm not saying Brady is the GOAT. I really don't know who is. I never bought in to winning SBs as the only or even main factor either. The best team wins the SB, not the best QB. Brady has the rings but he'd also have to be considered one of the best of this era even if only had 1 or 2. He's got plenty of regular season records, MVPs etc etc. It's not like he's Trent Dilfer but with 4 rings... All I know is I'm glad to have him QBing my team. He's not done yet, hopefully before he's done it'll be hard to say anyone else but him is the GOAT Thanks for your time I agree that's it's not all about the rings. There's 22 guys on the field every play; QB may be the most important position on the game but he can only do so much. One of the things that really stands out to me with Tom Brady is how many variations of offense the Patriots have used over his career. He started off as more of a game manager taking snaps under center in a balanced run oriented offense (that's when he won his first three rings). The offense evolved into a record-setting spread vertical attack featuring Brady taking most of his snaps from shotgun (18-1 Patriots). Then it reverts into a dink-and-dunk short pass WCO approach when Brady won his 2nd MVP in 2010, throwing 36 TDs to just 4 INTs - phenomenal by any standard. Now they seemed to have come full circle and gone back to more of a balanced offense this last year or two. Regardless, I've seen a lot of people ignorantly claim Brady to be a "system quarterback" simply because he's only played for the Patriots during his career. But to me there's a big difference between a team and a system. [For example, Peyton Manning switched teams but he's still running the same offensive system in Denver that he ran his entire career in Indianapolis: two teams, one system]. Brady has successfully played in more systems with New England than any other quarterback than I can think of. If you want him to protect the ball and limit turnovers, if you want him to run a west coast offense, if you want him to run a spread offense, if you want a run focused offense or a pass focused offense, a short passing game or deep shots down field, he does it all and he does it all well. That's what makes Tom Brady the best to me: his versatility.
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 21:46:26 GMT -5
Why is he not best? and whom do you think is? Name your top 5 like to see it Actually this might be a better thread topic OK. 1 - Joe Montana. The man ripped my heart out in the 1982 championship game. It took a long long time for me to acknowledge his greatness. But his record speaks for itself. "Look - it's John Candy". Had some of those early Niners players not lost their compass and mandated Walsh replacing them, I think he would have had another one or two under his belt. 2 - Tom Brady. Sustained excellence with a variety of weapons. It's tough for me not to put him at the top and I could change my mind tomorrow. He showed what he can do with an all time great (Randy Moss) and what he can do with friggin' Deion Branch. He also had Belichick and his defenses. That's where I give Joe Cool an extremely slight edge. 3 - Johnny Unitas. Until Joe - he was my all time best. Until Tom - he was my second all time best. Plain and simple... Johnny Unitas defined for me as a kid what a NFL QB was supposed to look like. And - it took the modern day version of offenses for QB's to break his record of a touchdown pass in 47 consecutive games. And - he has the rings to back it up. 4 - Otto Graham. In an era when a QB got the holy hell beat out of him and against defenses stacked because they knew what the Browns were going to do and being a team from an outsider league... 10 Championship games... 7 championships... and an unquestioned leader of men. Good enough for me. 5 - Peyton Manning. He gets the vote over Marino for me because of a ring. I could be a homer and put Roger up there... or Bradshaw... or Starr... but you can't deny his skill. The man will own every record there is for a QB. But championships matter too - especially for a QB. That's my list. I'll stick to it. I will say this... if Brady wins one more then it would be really really hard not to look at him as the best. Awesome post Otis.
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 21:47:39 GMT -5
I MISS SUNDAY FOOTBALL!!!!! HELL YES!!!
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Post by Zig on Feb 15, 2015 21:48:02 GMT -5
Pats were only favored by 3 in the 2nd SB loss to the Giants. And not to sound like a huge Brady homer but Brady was the main reason they even got there that year. That and the AFC was crap. Remember they('11 Pats) had the worst defense of all time until week 17 when the Packers passed them for that "honor". A healthy Gronk that game is probably quite different. But like the first SB loss Brady did give his team the late lead. also another way Brady and Joe are similar, the NY Giants were their kriptonite lol. Also note I have yet to vote in this, I'm not saying Brady is the GOAT. I really don't know who is. I never bought in to winning SBs as the only or even main factor either. The best team wins the SB, not the best QB. Brady has the rings but he'd also have to be considered one of the best of this era even if only had 1 or 2. He's got plenty of regular season records, MVPs etc etc. It's not like he's Trent Dilfer but with 4 rings... All I know is I'm glad to have him QBing my team. He's not done yet, hopefully before he's done it'll be hard to say anyone else but him is the GOAT Thanks for your time I agree that's it's not all about the rings. There's 22 guys on the field every play; QB may be the most important position on the game but he can only do so much. One of the things that really stands out to me with Tom Brady is how many variations of offense the Patriots have used over his career. He started off as more of a game manager taking snaps under center in a balanced run oriented offense (that's when he won his first three rings). The offense evolved into a record-setting spread vertical attack featuring Brady taking most of his snaps from shotgun (18-1 Patriots). Then it reverts into a dink-and-dunk short pass WCO approach when Brady won his 2nd MVP in 2010, throwing 36 TDs to just 4 INTs - phenomenal by any standard. Now they seemed to have come full circle and gone back to more of a balanced offense this last year or two. Regardless, I've seen a lot of people ignorantly claim Brady to be a "system quarterback" simply because he's only played for the Patriots during his career. But to me there's a big difference between a team and a system. [For example, Peyton Manning switched teams but he's still running the same offensive system in Denver that he ran his entire career in Indianapolis: two teams, one system]. Brady has successfully played in more systems with New England than any other quarterback than I can think of. If you want him to protect the ball and limit turnovers, if you want him to run a west coast offense, if you want him to run a spread offense, if you want a run focused offense or a pass focused offense, a short passing game or deep shots down field, he does it all and he does it all well. That's what makes Tom Brady the best to me: his versatility. Yeah and don't forget in 2010 they actually traded Moss after 4 games and changed "systems" during the year...and yep, they've employed quite a few different offenses over the years and Brady rarely misses a beat. Agreed on Peyton but the last couple years they have added some to the offense. It was the same as it was in Indy his first year in Denver though, and that offense was really pretty simple yet you always hear about how smart Peyton is lol. The Colts’ offense was, structurally at least, among the simplest in the league for the entire time Manning was there. They used only a handful of formations — and almost always lined up Marvin Harrison (and later Pierre Garçon) split wide to the right and Reggie Wayne split wide to the left — ten or so core pass plays and just a couple of core runs. I know that sounds a little silly, especially since we’re constantly told that NFL playbooks are incredibly dense and huge and so on, but the Colts killed people with like fifteen, maybe twenty plays, and they did it for a decade. How? It’s an obvious but true answer to say: with execution. Part of that execution was having great, veteran players who were very good at their jobs. Part of that was having a quarterback who could, because the formations were simple, identify weak spots in the defense and check into the right plays. (The story that Manning was always given “three plays” to choose from on every down was always a bit apocryphal, but he obviously had a lot of freedom and they did use a variety of “check-with-me” concepts where he could change the play at the line.) The way Indianapolis did vary its formations was generally by only moving around the two inside receivers, either two tight-ends, a tight-end and a slot receiver, or, more rarely, two receivers. In the diagram below, note how it is generally only Y and A who move around. - See more at: smartfootball.com/offense/peyton-manning-and-tom-moores-indianapolis-colts-offense#more-3525
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 21:50:29 GMT -5
True statement about Rodgers WRs but the guy is pretty nimble at sidestepping the rush, and he gets rid of the ball pretty damn quick. The fastest release I ever saw is Dan Marino. Him or Dan Fouts For real. I was so PISSED that he had to go to Cincinnati in (-59) windchill after that epic game in Miami. Got screwed. Could have given Joe a run for the money...
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 21:58:51 GMT -5
I agree that's it's not all about the rings. There's 22 guys on the field every play; QB may be the most important position on the game but he can only do so much. One of the things that really stands out to me with Tom Brady is how many variations of offense the Patriots have used over his career. He started off as more of a game manager taking snaps under center in a balanced run oriented offense (that's when he won his first three rings). The offense evolved into a record-setting spread vertical attack featuring Brady taking most of his snaps from shotgun (18-1 Patriots). Then it reverts into a dink-and-dunk short pass WCO approach when Brady won his 2nd MVP in 2010, throwing 36 TDs to just 4 INTs - phenomenal by any standard. Now they seemed to have come full circle and gone back to more of a balanced offense this last year or two. Regardless, I've seen a lot of people ignorantly claim Brady to be a "system quarterback" simply because he's only played for the Patriots during his career. But to me there's a big difference between a team and a system. [For example, Peyton Manning switched teams but he's still running the same offensive system in Denver that he ran his entire career in Indianapolis: two teams, one system]. Brady has successfully played in more systems with New England than any other quarterback than I can think of. If you want him to protect the ball and limit turnovers, if you want him to run a west coast offense, if you want him to run a spread offense, if you want a run focused offense or a pass focused offense, a short passing game or deep shots down field, he does it all and he does it all well. That's what makes Tom Brady the best to me: his versatility. Yeah and don't forget in 2010 they actually traded Moss after 4 games and changed "systems" during the year...and yep, they've employed quite a few different offenses over the years and Brady rarely misses a beat. Agreed on Peyton but the last couple years they have added some to the offense. It was the same as it was in Indy his first year in Denver though, and that offense was really pretty simple yet you always hear about how smart Peyton is lol. The Colts’ offense was, structurally at least, among the simplest in the league for the entire time Manning was there. They used only a handful of formations — and almost always lined up Marvin Harrison (and later Pierre Garçon) split wide to the right and Reggie Wayne split wide to the left — ten or so core pass plays and just a couple of core runs. I know that sounds a little silly, especially since we’re constantly told that NFL playbooks are incredibly dense and huge and so on, but the Colts killed people with like fifteen, maybe twenty plays, and they did it for a decade. How? It’s an obvious but true answer to say: with execution. Part of that execution was having great, veteran players who were very good at their jobs. Part of that was having a quarterback who could, because the formations were simple, identify weak spots in the defense and check into the right plays. (The story that Manning was always given “three plays” to choose from on every down was always a bit apocryphal, but he obviously had a lot of freedom and they did use a variety of “check-with-me” concepts where he could change the play at the line.) The way Indianapolis did vary its formations was generally by only moving around the two inside receivers, either two tight-ends, a tight-end and a slot receiver, or, more rarely, two receivers. In the diagram below, note how it is generally only Y and A who move around. - See more at: smartfootball.com/offense/peyton-manning-and-tom-moores-indianapolis-colts-offense#more-3525Very analytical piece here Z. I will say one thing quickly though. People that are dissing Manning are just wrong. Maybe he's not there with Montana, Johnny U, Starr, Brady, Luckman or any of those mentioned, but the guy broke his neck!! I think that he is still in the conversation. Talk about "what have you done for me lately"... My wife broke her neck. It is amazing that she is functioning. Peyton Manning broke his neck and made what may be the most stunning comeback in sports history, but because he had a rough half-dozen games, everyone wants to crap all over him. Awful.
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Post by Zig on Feb 15, 2015 22:04:54 GMT -5
Yeah and don't forget in 2010 they actually traded Moss after 4 games and changed "systems" during the year...and yep, they've employed quite a few different offenses over the years and Brady rarely misses a beat. Agreed on Peyton but the last couple years they have added some to the offense. It was the same as it was in Indy his first year in Denver though, and that offense was really pretty simple yet you always hear about how smart Peyton is lol. The Colts’ offense was, structurally at least, among the simplest in the league for the entire time Manning was there. They used only a handful of formations — and almost always lined up Marvin Harrison (and later Pierre Garçon) split wide to the right and Reggie Wayne split wide to the left — ten or so core pass plays and just a couple of core runs. I know that sounds a little silly, especially since we’re constantly told that NFL playbooks are incredibly dense and huge and so on, but the Colts killed people with like fifteen, maybe twenty plays, and they did it for a decade. How? It’s an obvious but true answer to say: with execution. Part of that execution was having great, veteran players who were very good at their jobs. Part of that was having a quarterback who could, because the formations were simple, identify weak spots in the defense and check into the right plays. (The story that Manning was always given “three plays” to choose from on every down was always a bit apocryphal, but he obviously had a lot of freedom and they did use a variety of “check-with-me” concepts where he could change the play at the line.) The way Indianapolis did vary its formations was generally by only moving around the two inside receivers, either two tight-ends, a tight-end and a slot receiver, or, more rarely, two receivers. In the diagram below, note how it is generally only Y and A who move around. - See more at: smartfootball.com/offense/peyton-manning-and-tom-moores-indianapolis-colts-offense#more-3525Very analytical piece here Z. I will say one thing quickly though. People that are dissing Manning are just wrong. Maybe he's not there with Montana, Johnny U, Starr, Brady, Luckman or any of those mentioned, but the guy broke his neck!! I think that he is still in the conversation. Talk about "what have you done for me lately"... My wife broke her neck. It is amazing that she is functioning. Peyton Manning broke his neck and made what may be the most stunning comeback in sports history, but because he had a rough half-dozen games, everyone wants to crap all over him. Awful. I can't help it though lol Might as well ask me to say something nice about the Yankees
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Feb 15, 2015 22:07:45 GMT -5
Very analytical piece here Z. I will say one thing quickly though. People that are dissing Manning are just wrong. Maybe he's not there with Montana, Johnny U, Starr, Brady, Luckman or any of those mentioned, but the guy broke his neck!! I think that he is still in the conversation. Talk about "what have you done for me lately"... My wife broke her neck. It is amazing that she is functioning. Peyton Manning broke his neck and made what may be the most stunning comeback in sports history, but because he had a rough half-dozen games, everyone wants to crap all over him. Awful. I can't help it though lol Might as well ask me to say something nice about the Yankees Priceless Z...
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Post by {+}Mother-Marge{+} on Feb 28, 2015 11:59:10 GMT -5
....gotta go with #12.........BRADY,..........."nuff said".......!
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 28, 2015 12:45:18 GMT -5
....gotta go with #12.........BRADY,..........."nuff said".......! Yeah like you even read the list before you selected
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 28, 2015 12:47:12 GMT -5
....gotta go with #12.........BRADY,..........."nuff said".......! Put your money in the bank you might get zHeld up
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Post by {+}Mother-Marge{+} on Feb 28, 2015 15:27:35 GMT -5
....gotta go with #12.........BRADY,..........."nuff said".......! Put your money in the bank you might get zHeld up ....you still "crying" about that last play-call 26-days ago,.....?,..........*MM plays her violin*.
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Post by {+}Mother-Marge{+} on Feb 28, 2015 15:30:35 GMT -5
....gotta go with #12.........BRADY,..........."nuff said".......! Yeah like you even read the list before you selected ....*MM grabs Seattle/bitch by her extensions and flings her to the ground*.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Feb 28, 2015 15:56:12 GMT -5
Put your money in the bank you might get zHeld up ....you still "crying" about that last play-call 26-days ago,.....?,..........*MM plays her violin*. Nah I'm looking forward to next season Hoping they use that as fuel to get to SB50 (finally they get rid of the roman numerals)
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