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Post by Swamp Dragon on Mar 3, 2015 16:05:45 GMT -5
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems to be that the most important aspect of the cases you've noted is "getting caught". Are you of the "if they can get away with it, more power" camp? From a personal standpoint - and here's where I get hypocritical, FYI - I find the use of chemicals to enhance one's performance to be far worse than placing a bet on a game. "Tampering with the fabric of the game" someone posted earlier - maybe even you. I don't know, but I don't think Rose had tried to alter the outcome of a game in order to win a bet. Every steroid abuser has tried to affect the outcome of hundreds upon hundreds of games. So, IMO, if even one known (not necessarily caught) abuser makes the HoF, Rose should be in also. I actually think he should be in NOW. Here's what would change my mind about Pete Rose. Come clean. Completely clean. A total mea culpa. Give every detail.... and have John Dowd correlate. Hide nothing. Whatever is "hidden" that we haven't heard - put it out there. And if Dowd concurs that everything is on the table... and it's proven (as you infer) that his actions associated with his betting didn't alter the results of a game, then I would be in favor of immediate reinstatement and consideration for the HoF. At that point - it's up to the voters. The way I see it we all seem to be in agreement that he should still be banned from baseball for life. We are divided on the HoF however. This is what I'd like to see he gets inducted but because he's banned from baseball he is not allowed at the induction ceremony. A bittersweet enshrinement
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Post by itsgot2bdashooz on Mar 4, 2015 22:01:13 GMT -5
I say hell yes.......being a Reds' fan be damned. IMHO, there are worse people already in the HOF, it is just that,(man I wish I had this gif).......Hatersgonnahate. I'd bet my life that others have bet,and others have used substances that helped them to get thru the day(i.e. help them perform on gameDAY, since games were played 95% of the time during the day). IMHO, you still have to be able to HIT the goddamn ball, and there is no drug around that is gonna help you do that..Not a PED fan, but for the most part these cats get a bad rap.....the drug didn't make them, it just helped them maintain their performance longer............ thank god for Viagara
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Post by aka50yearfan on Mar 5, 2015 9:53:50 GMT -5
Paul Hornung is in the HoF in Canton and Pete should be in the HoF in Cooperstown. If you think he'd be the only one to bet on their teams games in the Hall you need to give your head a shake Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were both forced out of baseball due to allegations of game fixing. Although they were later exonerated it was cause the main accuser Dutch Leonard refused to participate in the hearings. There were also allegations that the Philadelphia A's threw their series with the Boston Braves in 1914. Although never proven owner Connie Mack got rid of almost all of the star players from that team. Also the season before the Black Sox scandal it is alleged that the New York Giants threw the 1918 series Two of their players were banned from baseball at the same time as the 8 players from the Black Sox in 1919. Shhhh! Not supposed to remind people that MLB and the NFL were started by crooks, rum runners, bookies and your general reprobates as business ventures.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Mar 6, 2015 1:48:19 GMT -5
excerpt from Sporting News story Even if MLB reinstates Rose, road to Hall of Fame won't be easy by Jesse Spector
“Should Pete be reinstated from the ineligible list by MLB, his candidacy would be considered by the Expansion Era Committee,” Hall of Fame Vice President Brad Horn told Sporting News in an e-mail. “The rules for BBWAA consideration state that a player must be active as a player in the major leagues at some point during a period beginning 15 years before and ending 5 years prior to election.”
The Expansion Era Committee considers players whose greatest contributions to baseball came from the 1973 to the present. It votes on candidates every three years at the winter meetings. The last election resulted in last summer’s trio of managers — Bobby Cox, Tony La Russa and Joe Torre — gaining induction. The next committee vote is scheduled for December 2016, to consider candidates for induction in 2017.
The Expansion Era Committee considers players whose greatest contributions to baseball came from the 1973 to the present. It votes on candidates every three years at the winter meetings. The last election resulted in last summer’s trio of managers — Bobby Cox, Tony La Russa and Joe Torre — gaining induction. The next committee vote is scheduled for December 2016, to consider candidates for induction in 2017.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Mar 6, 2015 1:53:48 GMT -5
excerpt from Sporting News storyEven if MLB reinstates Rose, road to Hall of Fame won't be easyby Jesse Spector “Should Pete be reinstated from the ineligible list by MLB, his candidacy would be considered by the Expansion Era Committee,” Hall of Fame Vice President Brad Horn told Sporting News in an e-mail. “The rules for BBWAA consideration state that a player must be active as a player in the major leagues at some point during a period beginning 15 years before and ending 5 years prior to election.” The Expansion Era Committee considers players whose greatest contributions to baseball came from the 1973 to the present. It votes on candidates every three years at the winter meetings. The last election resulted in last summer’s trio of managers — Bobby Cox, Tony La Russa and Joe Torre — gaining induction. The next committee vote is scheduled for December 2016, to consider candidates for induction in 2017. The Expansion Era Committee considers players whose greatest contributions to baseball came from the 1973 to the present. It votes on candidates every three years at the winter meetings. The last election resulted in last summer’s trio of managers — Bobby Cox, Tony La Russa and Joe Torre — gaining induction. The next committee vote is scheduled for December 2016, to consider candidates for induction in 2017. So basically he will be on a 3 year cycle if he isn't reinstated by December next year he won't be eligible till 2020
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dyhard
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Post by dyhard on Mar 6, 2015 17:09:29 GMT -5
excerpt from Sporting News storyEven if MLB reinstates Rose, road to Hall of Fame won't be easyby Jesse Spector “Should Pete be reinstated from the ineligible list by MLB, his candidacy would be considered by the Expansion Era Committee,” Hall of Fame Vice President Brad Horn told Sporting News in an e-mail. “The rules for BBWAA consideration state that a player must be active as a player in the major leagues at some point during a period beginning 15 years before and ending 5 years prior to election.” The Expansion Era Committee considers players whose greatest contributions to baseball came from the 1973 to the present. It votes on candidates every three years at the winter meetings. The last election resulted in last summer’s trio of managers — Bobby Cox, Tony La Russa and Joe Torre — gaining induction. The next committee vote is scheduled for December 2016, to consider candidates for induction in 2017. The Expansion Era Committee considers players whose greatest contributions to baseball came from the 1973 to the present. It votes on candidates every three years at the winter meetings. The last election resulted in last summer’s trio of managers — Bobby Cox, Tony La Russa and Joe Torre — gaining induction. The next committee vote is scheduled for December 2016, to consider candidates for induction in 2017. So basically he will be on a 3 year cycle if he isn't reinstated by December next year he won't be eligible till 2020 I think he gets in real quick, if not the 1st eligible vote he has, he gets in on the 2nd
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Mar 6, 2015 20:58:00 GMT -5
So basically he will be on a 3 year cycle if he isn't reinstated by December next year he won't be eligible till 2020 I think he gets in real quick, if not the 1st eligible vote he has, he gets in on the 2nd I figure he'll get in 1st time but he won't have the Cobb like % he should have
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dyhard
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Post by dyhard on Mar 7, 2015 1:09:01 GMT -5
I think he gets in real quick, if not the 1st eligible vote he has, he gets in on the 2nd I figure he'll get in 1st time but he won't have the Cobb like % he should have he should with 100% imo but he won't. and I can see voters not voting for him because of him being banned for life. he's getting in on the 2nd for sure, 1st is 50/50 in my eyes. but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him in right away, he should be
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Post by aka50yearfan on Mar 7, 2015 8:59:46 GMT -5
I still have his rookie card and tops rookie all star card, the cardboard bubble gum that came with them is long gone,so YES, put him in. Can get some buckaroos on Ebay for them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 11:15:05 GMT -5
Reporter: Hey Pete, do you gamble? Pete: Hell no I don't gamble. Pete (A few months later): OK, maybe I gamble a little bit but I don't gamble on sports. Pete (A few months later): OK, maybe I gamble on sports occasionally, but I don't gamble on baseball. Pete (A few months later): OK, maybe I gamble on baseball a little, but I don't gamble on the Reds. Pete (A few months later): OK, maybe I gamble on the Reds a little, but I never gamble on them to lose. I never deliberately compromised the outcome of a Reds game.
Fuck that guy. Compulsive liar. He should never be in the Hall Of Fame.
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dyhard
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Post by dyhard on Mar 7, 2015 13:28:43 GMT -5
I still have his rookie card and tops rookie all star card, the cardboard bubble gum that came with them is long gone,so YES, put him in. Can get some buckaroos on Ebay for them. man, you can get a lot of money for both of them. if you want the easy way out, bring em to a card shop. if you want the most money, ebay or a online card shop are your best bets
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Post by aka50yearfan on Mar 7, 2015 14:07:11 GMT -5
I still have his rookie card and tops rookie all star card, the cardboard bubble gum that came with them is long gone,so YES, put him in. Can get some buckaroos on Ebay for them. man, you can get a lot of money for both of them. if you want the easy way out, bring em to a card shop. if you want the most money, ebay or a online card shop are your best bets Yes, but I will just keep them most likely and pass them on. Ebay is funny, few years ago I would make $10K a year just selling stuff for fun. stuff I would buy cheap at auctions and I knew would make big buckaroos. Then it seemed like ebay got weird and was taken over by stores and buy it now stuff and wasn't that much fun or new anymore to me. did learn a lot. Britties will pay up the ass for fishing stuff, they are friggin fanatics about fishing. who knew? and musical instruments? know what you are doing and cha ching. came across some pretty cool stuff. ah well, bought a box with hundreds and hundreds of old football cards for $15. still have most of them, but did sell a few of the money ones. ah well. Petey? don't care if he does or not. wouldn't be the first asshole in or the last. Personally, If I were him I would not want in. He is actually more famous as the " Man who belongs in the HOF but is not in because...." That guy is remembered an talked about. Once he gets in, a few years from now he is just another bronze head in a room full of them. More people know about pete rose than know about honus wagner.
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dyhard
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Post by dyhard on Mar 7, 2015 14:56:45 GMT -5
man, you can get a lot of money for both of them. if you want the easy way out, bring em to a card shop. if you want the most money, ebay or a online card shop are your best bets Yes, but I will just keep them most likely and pass them on. Ebay is funny, few years ago I would make $10K a year just selling stuff for fun. stuff I would buy cheap at auctions and I knew would make big buckaroos. Then it seemed like ebay got weird and was taken over by stores and buy it now stuff and wasn't that much fun or new anymore to me. did learn a lot. Britties will pay up the ass for fishing stuff, they are friggin fanatics about fishing. who knew? and musical instruments? know what you are doing and cha ching. came across some pretty cool stuff. ah well, bought a box with hundreds and hundreds of old football cards for $15. still have most of them, but did sell a few of the money ones. ah well. Petey? don't care if he does or not. wouldn't be the first asshole in or the last. Personally, If I were him I would not want in. He is actually more famous as the " Man who belongs in the HOF but is not in because...." That guy is remembered an talked about. Once he gets in, a few years from now he is just another bronze head in a room full of them. More people know about pete rose than know about honus wagner. shit, if I knew more about what I was doing with that stuff I'd be flipping it all day but I don't. maybe I need to start going to more garage sales and shit
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Post by aka50yearfan on Mar 7, 2015 15:14:17 GMT -5
Yes, but I will just keep them most likely and pass them on. Ebay is funny, few years ago I would make $10K a year just selling stuff for fun. stuff I would buy cheap at auctions and I knew would make big buckaroos. Then it seemed like ebay got weird and was taken over by stores and buy it now stuff and wasn't that much fun or new anymore to me. did learn a lot. Britties will pay up the ass for fishing stuff, they are friggin fanatics about fishing. who knew? and musical instruments? know what you are doing and cha ching. came across some pretty cool stuff. ah well, bought a box with hundreds and hundreds of old football cards for $15. still have most of them, but did sell a few of the money ones. ah well. Petey? don't care if he does or not. wouldn't be the first asshole in or the last. Personally, If I were him I would not want in. He is actually more famous as the " Man who belongs in the HOF but is not in because...." That guy is remembered an talked about. Once he gets in, a few years from now he is just another bronze head in a room full of them. More people know about pete rose than know about honus wagner. shit, if I knew more about what I was doing with that stuff I'd be flipping it all day but I don't. maybe I need to start going to more garage sales and shit Depends. Just key in stuff on ebay first to see what people actually will pay for, not the richy rich stuff, common stuff. remember old does not make it valuable, just old. then you have to be picky so you don't get stuck with stuff. weird what people would buy. the old theatre letters they would put up , frat boys would pay fifty a letter to spell something. SIGNS, ceramic, two sided, light em up signes, beer, animals, you name it. signs signs signs. old lava lamps from the fifties and sixties. tv lamps with the light in them and they would spin around and the deer would run or the fish would jump. weird sheiit. funny really.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Mar 7, 2015 17:52:39 GMT -5
man, you can get a lot of money for both of them. if you want the easy way out, bring em to a card shop. if you want the most money, ebay or a online card shop are your best bets Yes, but I will just keep them most likely and pass them on. Ebay is funny, few years ago I would make $10K a year just selling stuff for fun. stuff I would buy cheap at auctions and I knew would make big buckaroos. Then it seemed like ebay got weird and was taken over by stores and buy it now stuff and wasn't that much fun or new anymore to me. did learn a lot. Britties will pay up the ass for fishing stuff, they are friggin fanatics about fishing. who knew? and musical instruments? know what you are doing and cha ching. came across some pretty cool stuff. ah well, bought a box with hundreds and hundreds of old football cards for $15. still have most of them, but did sell a few of the money ones. ah well. Petey? don't care if he does or not. wouldn't be the first asshole in or the last. Personally, If I were him I would not want in. He is actually more famous as the " Man who belongs in the HOF but is not in because...." That guy is remembered an talked about. Once he gets in, a few years from now he is just another bronze head in a room full of them. More people know about pete rose than know about honus wagner. I hear that as a young man you watched Wagner play. Funny you picked Wagner who is so famous still cause of T206 instead of like Ralph Kiner or some other Pirates great no one remembers
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dyhard
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Post by dyhard on Mar 7, 2015 18:15:47 GMT -5
shit, if I knew more about what I was doing with that stuff I'd be flipping it all day but I don't. maybe I need to start going to more garage sales and shit Depends. Just key in stuff on ebay first to see what people actually will pay for, not the richy rich stuff, common stuff. remember old does not make it valuable, just old. then you have to be picky so you don't get stuck with stuff. weird what people would buy. the old theatre letters they would put up , frat boys would pay fifty a letter to spell something. SIGNS, ceramic, two sided, light em up signes, beer, animals, you name it. signs signs signs. old lava lamps from the fifties and sixties. tv lamps with the light in them and they would spin around and the deer would run or the fish would jump. weird sheiit. funny really. as long as it's electronics/clothes, I'm good. after that I'm lost for what's good selling prices/buying prices. shoes I'm getting knowledge on but still aren't strong with it.
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Post by aka50yearfan on Mar 8, 2015 8:20:55 GMT -5
Depends. Just key in stuff on ebay first to see what people actually will pay for, not the richy rich stuff, common stuff. remember old does not make it valuable, just old. then you have to be picky so you don't get stuck with stuff. weird what people would buy. the old theatre letters they would put up , frat boys would pay fifty a letter to spell something. SIGNS, ceramic, two sided, light em up signes, beer, animals, you name it. signs signs signs. old lava lamps from the fifties and sixties. tv lamps with the light in them and they would spin around and the deer would run or the fish would jump. weird sheiit. funny really. as long as it's electronics/clothes, I'm good. after that I'm lost for what's good selling prices/buying prices. shoes I'm getting knowledge on but still aren't strong with it. Out of my arena with shoes. But this is weird, old sneakers, used, beat to sheeit get good bucks and old blue jeans and for those who know things old dresses from the fifties and sixties. People are strange.
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Post by aka50yearfan on Mar 8, 2015 8:24:01 GMT -5
Yes, but I will just keep them most likely and pass them on. Ebay is funny, few years ago I would make $10K a year just selling stuff for fun. stuff I would buy cheap at auctions and I knew would make big buckaroos. Then it seemed like ebay got weird and was taken over by stores and buy it now stuff and wasn't that much fun or new anymore to me. did learn a lot. Britties will pay up the ass for fishing stuff, they are friggin fanatics about fishing. who knew? and musical instruments? know what you are doing and cha ching. came across some pretty cool stuff. ah well, bought a box with hundreds and hundreds of old football cards for $15. still have most of them, but did sell a few of the money ones. ah well. Petey? don't care if he does or not. wouldn't be the first asshole in or the last. Personally, If I were him I would not want in. He is actually more famous as the " Man who belongs in the HOF but is not in because...." That guy is remembered an talked about. Once he gets in, a few years from now he is just another bronze head in a room full of them. More people know about pete rose than know about honus wagner. I hear that as a young man you watched Wagner play. Funny you picked Wagner who is so famous still cause of T206 instead of like Ralph Kiner or some other Pirates great no one remembers The only reason the ordinary fan has a clue about wagner is because of the rarity of his card because he did not approve of tobacco I guess.
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Post by Zig on Mar 8, 2015 8:45:05 GMT -5
To me it's easy, he should be in based on what he did as a player. What he did after his playing days shouldn't matter. "ban him" from baseball, OK, but he had a HoF playing career.
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dyhard
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Post by dyhard on Mar 8, 2015 12:39:13 GMT -5
as long as it's electronics/clothes, I'm good. after that I'm lost for what's good selling prices/buying prices. shoes I'm getting knowledge on but still aren't strong with it. Out of my arena with shoes. But this is weird, old sneakers, used, beat to sheeit get good bucks and old blue jeans and for those who know things old dresses from the fifties and sixties. People are strange. it's about how many are made, when they came out, how hard they are to get, etc like there was a new shoe that just came out in the store - Martian 7s. it was released some years ago but Jordan just released it again. was going for $190 in the store for men's sizes. people are re-selling it at $240-$260 easy. just about knowing the shoe, demand, etc. all Jordan releases you can expect to buy it at the retail price and sell it for $50-$100 more. $50-60 more is the standard fair price. other shoes are going for a lot more - Legend Blues went $100+ more than retail
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Mar 8, 2015 12:43:01 GMT -5
I hear that as a young man you watched Wagner play. Funny you picked Wagner who is so famous still cause of T206 instead of like Ralph Kiner or some other Pirates great no one remembers The only reason the ordinary fan has a clue about wagner is because of the rarity of his card because he did not approve of tobacco I guess. Which is why I found t ironic that of all the old players you picked him instead of some long forgotten star of yesteryear
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 7:31:37 GMT -5
Without Pete Rose there is no Hall of Fame. It's like taking the Babe or Lou Gehrig out.
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tigertowner 68
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Mar 10, 2015 14:51:02 GMT -5
I say hell yes.......being a Reds' fan be damned. IMHO, there are worse people already in the HOF, it is just that,(man I wish I had this gif).......Hatersgonnahate. I'd bet my life that others have bet,and others have used substances that helped them to get thru the day(i.e. help them perform on gameDAY, since games were played 95% of the time during the day). IMHO, you still have to be able to HIT the goddamn ball, and there is no drug around that is gonna help you do that..Not a PED fan, but for the most part these cats get a bad rap.....the drug didn't make them, it just helped them maintain their performance longer............ thank god for Viagara My good friend bigd probably will hate this but my all-time favorite team is the Big Red Machine. Over any of my Tigers' teams. I am still very torn about Pete Rose. I loved the guy. The guy was baseball and that team was loaded with star power. Hatersgonnahate indeed but there has never been a player (especially one that was not even a power hitter) that stirred up more excitement in the game for me than the inimitable "Charley Hustle".
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Mar 10, 2015 14:52:04 GMT -5
To me it's easy, he should be in based on what he did as a player. What he did after his playing days shouldn't matter. "ban him" from baseball, OK, but he had a HoF playing career. In 100% agreement
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Post by EWA Beach PGH Fan on Mar 14, 2015 12:23:29 GMT -5
No! Absolutely NOT!!!!!
If Shoeless Joe Jackson isn't in yet, neither should Rose.
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Post by tigertowner 68 on Mar 15, 2015 15:53:43 GMT -5
No! Absolutely NOT!!!!! If Shoeless Joe Jackson isn't in yet, neither should Rose. Well, I don't agree but the logic is definitely sound...
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Post by tnerb57 on Mar 15, 2015 16:09:43 GMT -5
I still have his rookie card and tops rookie all star card, the cardboard bubble gum that came with them is long gone,so YES, put him in. Can get some buckaroos on Ebay for them. Whoa! What is the value of the rookie card pre-Hall? 'Cause we know what'll happen after!
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Post by redseat on Aug 18, 2015 6:29:54 GMT -5
To me it's easy, he should be in based on what he did as a player. What he did after his playing days shouldn't matter. "ban him" from baseball, OK, but he had a HoF playing career. However, to pull a "Goodell," it's about the "integrity" of the game. Rose beat on baseball which is illegal and is getting punished for it. IF he admitted it from the beginning imo he might have a better shot getting into the Hall. As long as Selig is in charge there is no way he gets in.
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Aug 18, 2015 16:18:58 GMT -5
To me it's easy, he should be in based on what he did as a player. What he did after his playing days shouldn't matter. "ban him" from baseball, OK, but he had a HoF playing career. However, to pull a "Goodell," it's about the "integrity" of the game. Rose beat on baseball which is illegal and is getting punished for it. IF he admitted it from the beginning imo he might have a better shot getting into the Hall. As long as Selig is in charge there is no way he gets in. Canton it's only about what you did in the game Otherwise do you really think Lawrence Taylor would be there or Hornung(gambling) or Namath(Bachelor's III) or Moon(domestic assault) or ....
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Post by redseat on Aug 18, 2015 17:42:42 GMT -5
However, to pull a "Goodell," it's about the "integrity" of the game. Rose beat on baseball which is illegal and is getting punished for it. IF he admitted it from the beginning imo he might have a better shot getting into the Hall. As long as Selig is in charge there is no way he gets in. Canton it's only about what you did in the game Otherwise do you really think Lawrence Taylor would be there or Hornung(gambling) or Namath(Bachelor's III) or Moon(domestic assault) or .... I know, but it will be on the people's minds who vote for the Hall, therefore that will be an issue.
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