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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 8:38:34 GMT -5
I think this whole thing about footballs being 2 lbs light is just stupid. If you held a football in one hand that was legal weight and one with 2 lbs less pressure in it in the other you would not notice any difference. A QB might be able to grip the lighter one better but I doubt it very seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 9:45:42 GMT -5
I think this whole thing about footballs being 2 lbs light is just stupid. If you held a football in one hand that was legal weight and one with 2 lbs less pressure in it in the other you would not notice any difference. A QB might be able to grip the lighter one better but I doubt it very seriously. You're mixing terms. There is virtually no difference in weight at all. There is no "lighter" and "heavier". There is a difference in pounds per square inch. A slick, cold, wet, hard football becomes easier to grab if you reduce the air pressure. Your fingers press harder into the leather, adding addition surface area for contact. There is more give on the receivers hand like the difference between a major league baseball and a little-league t-ball. Or it's like a 90 compression golf ball vs 110 compression golf ball... on a cold day, you want the lower compression number because it spins and sicks better - it doesn't feel like a rock; just like the higher-pressure footballs. |
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Otis B. Driftwood
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 22, 2015 10:32:32 GMT -5
I think this whole thing about footballs being 2 lbs light is just stupid. If you held a football in one hand that was legal weight and one with 2 lbs less pressure in it in the other you would not notice any difference. A QB might be able to grip the lighter one better but I doubt it very seriously. You're mixing terms. There is virtually no difference in weight at all. There is no "lighter" and "heavier". There is a difference in pounds per square inch. A slick, cold, wet, hard football becomes easier to grab if you reduce the air pressure. Your fingers press harder into the leather, adding addition surface area for contact. There is more give on the receivers hand like the difference between a major league baseball and a little-league t-ball. Or it's like a 90 compression golf ball vs 110 compression golf ball... on a cold day, you want the lower compression number because it spins and sicks better - it doesn't feel like a rock; just like the higher-pressure footballs. And - while I may be a bit simplistic in my thinking here, a properly trained field official would seem to have been able to "feel" the difference in a couple of PSI. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 10:35:20 GMT -5
I think this whole thing about footballs being 2 lbs light is just stupid. If you held a football in one hand that was legal weight and one with 2 lbs less pressure in it in the other you would not notice any difference. A QB might be able to grip the lighter one better but I doubt it very seriously. You're mixing terms. There is virtually no difference in weight at all. There is no "lighter" and "heavier". There is a difference in pounds per square inch. A slick, cold, wet, hard football becomes easier to grab if you reduce the air pressure. Your fingers press harder into the leather, adding addition surface area for contact. There is more give on the receivers hand like the difference between a major league baseball and a little-league t-ball. Or it's like a 90 compression golf ball vs 110 compression golf ball... on a cold day, you want the lower compression number because it spins and sicks better - it doesn't feel like a rock; just like the higher-pressure footballs. So how much of a difference does 2 lbs make? I would think next to nil. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 10:35:46 GMT -5
You're mixing terms. There is virtually no difference in weight at all. There is no "lighter" and "heavier". There is a difference in pounds per square inch. A slick, cold, wet, hard football becomes easier to grab if you reduce the air pressure. Your fingers press harder into the leather, adding addition surface area for contact. There is more give on the receivers hand like the difference between a major league baseball and a little-league t-ball. Or it's like a 90 compression golf ball vs 110 compression golf ball... on a cold day, you want the lower compression number because it spins and sicks better - it doesn't feel like a rock; just like the higher-pressure footballs. And - while I may be a bit simplistic in my thinking here, a properly trained field official would seem to have been able to "feel" the difference in a couple of PSI. I believe so, yea. 15-20% is noticeable. if it's enough to help the Qb, it's enough for the ref to detect. Especially if the Colts' footballs were properly inflated. You're switching back and forth. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 10:43:29 GMT -5
You're mixing terms. There is virtually no difference in weight at all. There is no "lighter" and "heavier". There is a difference in pounds per square inch. A slick, cold, wet, hard football becomes easier to grab if you reduce the air pressure. Your fingers press harder into the leather, adding addition surface area for contact. There is more give on the receivers hand like the difference between a major league baseball and a little-league t-ball. Or it's like a 90 compression golf ball vs 110 compression golf ball... on a cold day, you want the lower compression number because it spins and sicks better - it doesn't feel like a rock; just like the higher-pressure footballs. So how much of a difference does 2 lbs make? I would think next to nil. To an average Joe, nil. To an elite professional, it matters. these guys have thrown hundreds of thousands of footballs. Their senses are hyper-aware. They have preferences on touch and feel and wear. They may even be superstitious. Like an artist can differentiate a hundred shades of green. Tiger Woods can detect a tenth of an ounce difference in club-weight or slight defects in machining. Elite professionals know their equipment like you know your wife's curves after 30 years. They can tell. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 10:48:34 GMT -5
So how much of a difference does 2 lbs make? I would think next to nil. To an average Joe, nil. To an elite professional, it matters. these guys have thrown hundreds of thousands of footballs. Their senses are hyper-aware. They have preferences on touch and feel and wear. They may even be superstitious. Like an artist can differentiate a hundred shades of green. Tiger Woods can detect a tenth of an ounce difference in club-weight or slight defects in machining. Elite professionals know their equipment like you know your wife's curves after 30 years. They can tell. This whole thing can be resolved by simply having the referees obtain and provide the game balls and having the refs maintain them before and during the game. After a game they can do whatever they want with them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 10:56:19 GMT -5
To an average Joe, nil. To an elite professional, it matters. these guys have thrown hundreds of thousands of footballs. Their senses are hyper-aware. They have preferences on touch and feel and wear. They may even be superstitious. Like an artist can differentiate a hundred shades of green. Tiger Woods can detect a tenth of an ounce difference in club-weight or slight defects in machining. Elite professionals know their equipment like you know your wife's curves after 30 years. They can tell. This whole thing can be resolved by simply having the referees obtain and provide the game balls and having the refs maintain them before and during the game. After a game they can do whatever they want with them. That seems the most reasonable. The refs maintain possession of the footballs. Teams send in a representative to witness the conformity checks. Everyone signs an approval. End of discussion. |
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Post by CWJim on Jan 22, 2015 10:57:24 GMT -5
1. New England ran the ball down the Colts throats to the tune of 3 touchdowns 2. Indianapolis only put 7 points on the board all game. Psi in the Pats footballs has no impact on that. With that said, if it were any other franchise I'd say a slap on the wrist penalty at best. But with Bill Belichick's history, it should merit a slightly stronger response from the league. IMO you target the coach. They fined him after SpyGate, so fines don't work. A short suspension makes more sense to me. Make Belichick miss a few games early next season. That might actually have an impact on his willingness to seek out illegal advantages. I seriously don`t see why this is such an issue, is it just because of NE hate ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 11:21:39 GMT -5
1. New England ran the ball down the Colts throats to the tune of 3 touchdowns 2. Indianapolis only put 7 points on the board all game. Psi in the Pats footballs has no impact on that. With that said, if it were any other franchise I'd say a slap on the wrist penalty at best. But with Bill Belichick's history, it should merit a slightly stronger response from the league. IMO you target the coach. They fined him after SpyGate, so fines don't work. A short suspension makes more sense to me. Make Belichick miss a few games early next season. That might actually have an impact on his willingness to seek out illegal advantages. I seriously don`t see why this is such an issue, is it just because of NE hate ? Yes. But I think they should do as I suggested just to shut everybody up about this ridiculous "cheating" charge that Pats haters are making. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 11:40:46 GMT -5
1. New England ran the ball down the Colts throats to the tune of 3 touchdowns 2. Indianapolis only put 7 points on the board all game. Psi in the Pats footballs has no impact on that. With that said, if it were any other franchise I'd say a slap on the wrist penalty at best. But with Bill Belichick's history, it should merit a slightly stronger response from the league. IMO you target the coach. They fined him after SpyGate, so fines don't work. A short suspension makes more sense to me. Make Belichick miss a few games early next season. That might actually have an impact on his willingness to seek out illegal advantages. I seriously don`t see why this is such an issue, is it just because of NE hate ? two different discussions going on: 1. Can a QB tell and does it make a difference to the QB? Yes, much the same way a professional golfer has a preference for his equipment. The performance comes from comfort, feel, and confidence more than physics and PSI. 2. Did it make any difference in why the Pats won? Nope. Zero. |
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Post by Zig on Jan 22, 2015 11:49:22 GMT -5
To an average Joe, nil. To an elite professional, it matters. these guys have thrown hundreds of thousands of footballs. Their senses are hyper-aware. They have preferences on touch and feel and wear. They may even be superstitious. Like an artist can differentiate a hundred shades of green. Tiger Woods can detect a tenth of an ounce difference in club-weight or slight defects in machining. Elite professionals know their equipment like you know your wife's curves after 30 years. They can tell. This whole thing can be resolved by simply having the referees obtain and provide the game balls and having the refs maintain them before and during the game. After a game they can do whatever they want with them. that's how it was until around 2006. From what I've heard Peyton petitioned to let the teams use their own balls and prep them how they wanted to (within reason of course) un written rule that since all QBs like different things concerning the ball nobody complains unless it's something outrageous. So once again, like the re -emphasis on illegal contact en sech, we have the Colts farking things up for everyone...after a game they got demolished in no less |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 12:10:53 GMT -5
Well, I had just made the suggestion so nobody would have a reason to gripe. I really don't care about footballs that are off by 2 lbs either way. This whole argument is a farce as far as I am concerned.
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Post by BHR on Jan 22, 2015 15:34:18 GMT -5
Tom Brady will be suspended for the Super Bowl and Belicheat will be suspended all of next year
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Post by CWJim on Jan 22, 2015 15:46:02 GMT -5
I seriously don`t see why this is such an issue, is it just because of NE hate ? two different discussions going on: 1. Can a QB tell and does it make a difference to the QB? Yes, much the same way a professional golfer has a preference for his equipment. The performance comes from comfort, feel, and confidence more than physics and PSI. 2. Did it make any difference in why the Pats won? Nope. Zero. unless a QB has the hands of a virgin girl, the NFL ball passes better with 13LBS of air. I know, because I got one for my son, and when I was 45 I could make the bitch whistle....then I got old and the pussy knuckle in my shoulder gave out...but! The NFL ball is sticky, easy to grip when new, so why would anyone want to have a flat ball ? I heard one of the talking heads say.....NE could have won if they were throwing friesbies, thats true, and another reason it shouldn`t be such an issue. |
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Post by BHR on Jan 22, 2015 15:49:10 GMT -5
without spygate its probably a non issue. with spygate it hurts the legacy of brady/belicheat as people who will win with cheating.
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Post by Canuck eh? on Jan 22, 2015 15:53:34 GMT -5
without spygate its probably a non issue. with spygate it hurts the legacy of brady/belicheat as people who will win with cheating.  |
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Post by CWJim on Jan 22, 2015 16:02:39 GMT -5
I seriously don`t see why this is such an issue, is it just because of NE hate ? Yes. But I think they should do as I suggested just to shut everybody up about this ridiculous "cheating" charge that Pats haters are making. what did you suggest? I missed it.....and I`m to lazy to look back, sorry. |
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 22, 2015 16:47:19 GMT -5
Tom Brady will be suspended for the Super Bowl and Belicheat will be suspended all of next year And Jimmy Garoppolo will lead a Josh McDaniels coached team to glory. |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 22, 2015 17:42:25 GMT -5
Tom Brady will be suspended for the Super Bowl and Belicheat will be suspended all of next year And Jimmy Garoppolo will lead a Josh McDaniels coached team to glory. As a draftnik Garoppolo was the sleeper QB in the draft IMO I think he'll turn out to be a red chip QB in a couple seasons when he takes over from Brady |
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 22, 2015 18:00:48 GMT -5
Tom Brady will be suspended for the Super Bowl and Belicheat will be suspended all of next year "When I came in Monday morning, I was shocked to learn of the reports about the footballs. I had no knowledge of the various steps involved in the game balls and the process it went through and what happened. So I learned a lot about that." - Bill Belichick
"I have no knowledge of anything. I have no knowledge of wrongdoing. I have no problem saying that - as far as I know." - Tom Brady
"...ignorance is not an excuse." - Roger Goodell
Precedence exists... as much as Goodell won't want to admit it. It's either that or his officiating crews are under the microscope. And he certainly doesn't need that.
The Ginger God is in quite a pickle here.
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 22, 2015 18:02:36 GMT -5
And Jimmy Garoppolo will lead a Josh McDaniels coached team to glory. As a draftnik Garoppolo was the sleeper QB in the draft IMO I think he'll turn out to be a red chip QB in a couple seasons when he takes over from Brady Might be a whole lot sooner than a couple of seasons. |
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Post by Super Paul Mullin on Jan 22, 2015 18:30:17 GMT -5
Is it JIMMY time?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 18:52:59 GMT -5
Yes. But I think they should do as I suggested just to shut everybody up about this ridiculous "cheating" charge that Pats haters are making. what did you suggest? I missed it.....and I`m to lazy to look back, sorry. I suggested that the refs should obtain, provide and maintain game balls. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 9:12:41 GMT -5
It makes sense now.  |
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Post by Leader O'Cola on Jan 23, 2015 9:47:04 GMT -5
Belichik-season, $2.5M
Pats- $5M, loss of 1st and 2nd round pick
the effects of the deflated balls didn't change the outcome of the game, but of ALL seasons to put Goodell and the "integrity of the game" under scrutiny... and then double down and do it leading into the league's worldwide media spectacle and showcase game?
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Post by Otis B. Driftwood on Jan 23, 2015 10:00:56 GMT -5
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 23, 2015 12:04:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 12:11:52 GMT -5
Of course his is. A better story would have been. "I checked the balls and they came in over-inflated. I told the equipment guy to let some air out. he knows I like 12.5. He must have let too much out accidentally. We'll check the gauges. It was cold. I didn't notice." |
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Post by Swamp Dragon on Jan 23, 2015 12:27:49 GMT -5
Belichik-season, $2.5M Pats- $5M, loss of 1st and 2nd round pick the effects of the deflated balls didn't change the outcome of the game, but of ALL seasons to put Goodell and the "integrity of the game" under scrutiny... and then double down and do it leading into the league's worldwide media spectacle and showcase game? Very Doubtful although a fine I'm sure will be there like in real life they'll throw a pawn (Ball boy) on the Sword to protect their brand as spygate & bountygate have proven time heals all (well almost) wounds |
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